0:00:03 - Betsy Jordyn
So welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Enough Already podcast, the show for consultants and coaches who want to forge their own path to success in their businesses and their careers in their lives. I'm your host, betsy Jordan, and I'm so excited to have Puja Madan on the show today. She is a leadership coach and she's an expert in something that is very near and dear to all of our hearts, which is how do you build a business that is aligned in an alignment with your purpose and your values, and how do you bring spirituality into practicality in your businesses. So she's going to share with you all about. what you really want to know is how do you create this high impact, meaningful business that really comes out of your soul? So welcome to the show, Puja. I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you so much.
0:00:49 - Puja Madan
I'm over the moon excited to be here with you today.
0:00:52 - Betsy Jordyn
So there's so many things I want to talk to you about I dying to talk more about your whole model around where your strategy should come from and how it comes from your soul, and we have so much to talk about. But before we get into that, i want to back up and talk a little bit about your background and how you came to this place, where you are, this leadership coach who has this ability to uniquely blend spirituality and entrepreneurship.
0:01:16 - Puja Madan
Yeah, thank you. You know, now, at this point in my life when I look back, there was so much spiritual guidance that I thought I was through my free will taking those steps. But now that I connect the dots I'm like, oh, this person and this conversation and this moment, everything was lined up for me. So it has fortified my faith in spirit and in the universe. But I started my professional journey in India's tech scene. It was a booming time for us.
We were all bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and very excited about the role that technology could play, and so I started off as in product management roles in small not small like medium-sized tech startups, and it was really stimulating, challenging, fun and exhausting and debilitating and destructive at the same time. And so my stress levels at work would draw me to the world of meditation. This was in India. So I'm like, how do I balance all this? So I would go and I would travel to meet meditation teachers, and what I would find was that I started to live in two different worlds In one world, the world of being in touch with my body and being in touch with my feelings, and even the men in the meditation centers. They would come out of their meditations and they were willing to be vulnerable.
And then I would go to work and everybody just had to suck it up, including me, and we just had to be like these bros that just had tight deadlines and it didn't matter if someone's mom had passed or any kind of human things that were happening, just had to be left at the door. And I could see the contrast and how it was affecting me, because one world was soft and the other world was hard, and in one world I only could. My value was only in my mental plane and in my accomplishments, and in the other world my value was in my essence and in my presence And I could tell like this is not sustainable, like these worlds will collide, because I was living double lives.
0:03:38 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah, like you weren't integrated, you were completely integrated. Completely disconnected, absolutely.
0:03:44 - Puja Madan
And I remember saying that I felt like I would have to leave aspects of me at the office door to walk in and to be accepted and to be rewarded and to get the promotion. And so my body crashed completely. I was 28 years old. I had this massive health crisis that needed surgeries and lots of treatment, and it was like what we call a come to Jesus moment or a wake up call, or like when you are down on your knees and you pray And I really, you know it took my spiritual discipline to another level of like what am I meant to do? Like why am I here? Like how do I want to spend the rest of my life?
And that started the beginning of where I am today and sort of this integration of what I call Yin and Yang energies and the practical and the spiritual and the intuitive and the logical and the you know what we call opposites, but the integration. But at that time I was just crambling and you know I was looking to get my health back in order and I had just moved to the state, so I went to school to study nutrition, and so one thing led to another, and then coaching started to become something I was really good at and I started incorporating my leadership skills from my work And just it just evolved like I kept getting guided to narrow down my niche and my skillset and then really find, you know, something that would bring value and impact to my clients, who were very purpose driven but for burning out, you know, or struggling either with the strategy or the spirituality, and then I could support them.
0:05:26 - Betsy Jordyn
So why do you think we are in this world where it really sets us up to be disintegrated? you know where we have like one part of me can show up over at work, or the other part of me is going to be in my relationships, the other part of me is going to be with my kids, like why are we set up this way? Is it just part of the human evolution or is it just something that's going on in our society right now?
0:05:44 - Puja Madan
Yeah, you bring such a good point. I think there is no. There is like personal crisis and there's global crisis and they both require us to, instead of hating on the situation on the external factors, to really look within and say where am I missing some growth that is possible. Like, every crisis is an invitation for us to grow and expand, and many of us have gone through these personal, you know what I would call like crises, to get to that place of clarity. And actually the globe, our planet, has gone through a global crisis with COVID.
That is really forcing us to look at what are we doing. You know, i mean, there's been this whole great resignation and all of that is collectively, we are saying this does not work. We cannot be disintegrated and we cannot be abused and used in work environments and then switch off and switch on like we are not putting up with that. And so, collectively, you know, i do a lot of work with corporations and they are having to take a hard look in the mirror at who are we as a company Like? are we putting profits for us People first? how are we investing in the well-being? So now people are taking mental health days. So I feel like we are demanding collectively an integration, and a lot of it has been sparked by people like you and me and who had personal crises that forced us to integrate.
0:07:16 - Betsy Jordyn
Well, i don't. It's like it was a personal crisis that forced me to integrate, as much as the personal crisis revealed to me that I was disintegrated. Like I remember the moment. There's so many moments like when I think about, like why I decided to leave Disney to start my own business, and I think it really began, like really, at my dad's funeral.
This will sound weird, but you know, but if we were at my dad's funeral and my siblings and I were like writing little notes to shove in a suit, you know, because it's like Hey, you're going to the other side, you're going to see the big guy, you know, can you put in a good word for us? And my brother said, you know, his little note was like Hey, i want a new job, and my other sister's like I want a baby, my other sister's like I want a boyfriend. And I wrote, like I felt like a dotted line person and I wanted to become whole, and it was like one of those situations where I feel like the universe took me up on that offer. I had no idea how hard things were going to get from that particular moment, but it was like I want to become whole And so that's like everything changed, like I was always super passionate about consulting And then I came home from the funeral and like I'm not passionate about consulting anymore. You know, like everything that I thought I was like I totally flipped up my life because I think that moment revealed to me the disintegration By the way, all my other siblings prayers were answered and mine was. I just didn't know like mine was going to take longer and harder.
But any who? but the idea here is there's a lot of my clients who leave corporate and they leave the security of a nine to five. For that same reason is like I like something might have happened a job loss, layoff or redefinition And then it really revealed like my work is over here, my hobbies are over there, or my personal life, very personal life, and none of these are integrated is a common kind of situation. But it's like how is the questions like? is it just something that happens like midlife that we we see the need for integration, or is it just the global crisis Like what drives us to want this? Is this a natural part of our spiritual progression?
0:09:11 - Puja Madan
Yeah, so let's let's talk about how nature works, because not everything that is normal into this day and age is natural. So nature is not really disintegrated. Everything, like the ecosystems, are very in harmony and you know, the trees not fighting the squirrel for who you know like there's a lot of, there's a lot of integration between resources, and so I do believe that, for each of us, personally and globally, our evolution does invite us to move more and more into a natural state of being where we don't feel in conflict with our own self and we therefore do not feel in conflict with the external world. And so the way that we treat the planet has a lot to do the way we abuse our own inner self and our own resources. Right, it's like we keep, if we keep eating trash, and then we wonder why?
you know, i have a health problem that is abusing our, our bodily planet, you know. And so we are constantly through medical crises or other things. We're constantly being invited to say, hey, where am I living out of balance and what needs to be integrated, and we constantly see nature showing us the way in that, you know, in how it balances day with night, and you know sunlight with moonlight and you know, the summer with the winter there's always opposites that are coming together, that are integrating to to create life and abundance and prosperity. But when we pinch ourselves from that, we will always be in a state of suffering and disintegration.
0:10:55 - Betsy Jordyn
So I want to talk a little bit more because I think you're starting to touch on your amazing model for how you approach clients and helping them really come up with the right strategy for their business. Can you talk about your amplify model? Yeah, yeah.
0:11:08 - Puja Madan
So the amplify model is really my own journey, right. That then I realized could be replicated for my clients. But the spiritual part of our, our self, of who we are, when we are stripped of the voices from outside, of who we should be, that place of falling in alignment with ourselves, that is the spiritual part of the work, right, and that requires a lot of you know, like it doesn't happen overnight, right, like that's deep inner work. And so that is the triangle of the self. And once we have some clarity about what our values are, what our vision is, what is our voice, what are we meant to do in the world, then we tackle the next triangle in the framework of our energy.
So, like, how are we going to not follow the template that has been given to us, that is coming from the industrial world?
We were never designed to work in that kind of, like, you know, in an assembly line production style. Especially when we are entrepreneurs and we have freedom over our time, we want to get very, very efficient and very you know, very resourceful about our time and energy and our mindset, and those come in together. And then, once we have those in order, strategy is like a cakewalk, because, of course, we have cultivated skill sets and qualified ourselves and have the experience to bring our gifts into the world. And then the strategy is very easy on, like who is this for And what is the best way to reach them, and you know how will this grow. Those are to me like almost like they just fall in place on their own, as they did with you from our retreat right, like there's just so much clarity for your strategy that we didn't even talk about, you know, but it just sort of unfolded naturally because your inner self fell in alignment, and to me that is the progression that I love to witness repeatedly with my clients.
0:13:20 - Betsy Jordyn
So why is it that when people want to just jump straight into strategy, like why doesn't that work? Why is it so, like we all, that's the bias. Like when I work with clients like that's their first starting point, like, okay, what's the strategy, Let's go, go, go, go And you know I try to help with my process is like, okay, we got to slow down, we got to tap in with your heart, you got to figure out who you are, what you want. Why is it that our natural inclination is? Is it part of that industrial culture Like this is what we're used to, Or is there something else that wants us to quickly get the strategy going, quickly get clients?
0:13:51 - Puja Madan
Yeah Well, i want to first of all honor you and celebrate you for your work and your genius in bringing your clients back to their hearts and to their centers, because that is really where the magic is. And let's talk about why we can feel a sense of urgency about strategy. There's like two main reasons. One is if we are really in survival mode And sometimes it can be perceived survival and sometimes it can be real survival. So if we are really looking to put food on the table, guess what You need to sell and you need to have money in the bank But if we have not worked through our trauma, then we can stay in survival mode, even with millions of dollars in the bank, and that sense of urgency is still there. You know, that sense of desperation, of like I need more because we haven't given peace to that part of us that never feels like, oh, you know, i'm rested, i'm safe, right, so like we always feel like we need to keep scrambling and hustling. That's one reason. And the other reason is, yes, we live in a paradigm where our accomplishment, our entire worth and our value is tied to our accomplishments and our achievements. So of course, strategy feels like the easiest way to get there. It's like okay, because in strategy we are doing right, because with the you know, with the self and the energy, there's a lot of being work that is done right.
So in strategy, we can fool ourselves into thinking I'm hustling, i'm working hard, i'm doing the things, and what I noticed a lot of clients come to me at this point is they're doing all the things but they are internally either burning out, or externally burning out, or internally not feeling fulfilled.
They're, you know, they're checking all the boxes, they're hitting the milestones, they're hitting the revenues, but there's an emptiness inside, and so that is the harm that comes when we tackle strategy first is either it is coming as a trauma response or it is coming from a sense of like feeding external metrics that don't really kill our souls and our hearts, and then, even at the end of the day, we feel like we still should be doing more, and so that is important reflection that behooves all of us, especially those of us who are in the service field, of being being of service to others coaches and consultants is like am I feeling fulfilled Or am I just, like, you know, even though I'm not in the corporate role, am I still a hamster on the wheel, chasing something that has been, you know, i've been told is important, but has not felt necessarily important or valuable or meaningful to me That's such a great point because a lot of my clients do come out of the corporate world And it's like that we wind up recreating our career in our business because we didn't take that beat to look at the self and the energy first It's like, okay, here's my corporate career, okay, so I can immediately start getting clients from this one.
0:16:52 - Betsy Jordyn
And now I have this. And then several years later it's like, hey, wait, what's this business that I built? And I, when I, when I look at, when I look at your approach, like the, the connecting with self, like that seems to be like what, like the self feels, like you're talking about not necessarily creating something new, but it's like it's unlearning whatever is not actually authentic, like you talk about, like the industrial world isn't necessarily the way that we're wired, like at a human level, you know, and it is a personal human level, like I'm wired in a particular way, i have certain inclinations connecting with self, like so how? what would you recommend? Like, what do people first steps, you know, like to do to connect with self?
0:17:35 - Puja Madan
You know, i have to say I, in my years of working, i have noticed how much entrepreneurs and what drives them is often a trauma response. They're just like you know they're in. When you're in, either freeze, fight or flight. You know you're either like the fight and flight are a lot of action oriented external manifestations And that can look like a lot of work.
Thank you, rise for life, rise for your freedom and a lot of achieving and accomplishment, but not it's like to complete something inside of ourselves. So I actually would say, looking at our trauma, because many coaches and clients have come to this work to help others because they went through something themselves, right, they overcame something themselves, right, and so if they are not aware of their own shadow work in that, if they're not looking at what is still driving that, they can give too much, they can not have enough boundaries and they can just keep giving and doing without really looking at is it coming from a fight or flight response or is it really coming from a deep place of overflow of creative life force And I think that's a very subtle nuanced difference, and I would recommend that that be the first thing to look at.
0:19:13 - Betsy Jordyn
I can't visual in my mind as you're talking about. It is like a picture of the difference between like, without being connected with self. It's like, okay, i gotta do this, i gotta do this, i gotta do this. Like, okay, what do I need to do Versus? like okay, you know. Like, let me get grounded to myself. Who am I? heart, you know. Heart, my no, not my heart. My head, my heart, you know. My words, you know and my body. And all of this is an alignment where it's like I'm all connected and I'm grounded and I'm not operating out of the fight or flight. That seems to be like the first part is get free from that frenzied energy and get connected. Is that accurate?
0:19:50 - Puja Madan
Absolutely, and then from a place of like I'm not abandoning myself, right Once I'm fully embodied in my own self, in my heart and in my body, and for women in our room, because that is such a grounding, majestic place for women to be operating from. From there the other parts of the self can form right, like what are my values, what is my voice? Like what is my, like my spiritual higher self wanting me to do and create and be in this world, and then all of that can come. But we cannot approach that, i mean in the spiritual community.
It's very dangerous because people can live in the spiritual world and basically not be in their bodies And so their bodies can be in this hyper, you know hyper states of like anxiety and a lot of like shaky energy. But to be in the body and to have both to trauma and then to come to a place of values and voice and somehow like that genius right, then we are talking about a self being fully integrated and that is valuable to the world because it has to do nothing. Our presence does the work From that place. That person's presence is doing all the work for them.
0:21:09 - Betsy Jordyn
So when you say, is it presence or intuition, like in our work together when you were helping me with some of my my business reinvention type of stuff, we talked a lot about like tapping into intuition, is that part of the energy work or is that part of, like, the connection to self work?
0:21:25 - Puja Madan
It is connection to self, because your intuition is your essence, it is yourself. And the more a person and a woman is operating out of her intuition, she starts to radiate a presence that is very magnetic and will draw the right people to her, the right opportunities, the right clients, and that is because she is trusting herself. And that trust comes from like once we have worked through the trauma and we've done that in our work, then we can say, okay, this feels off or this feels amazing, or my body feels lighter or my body feels constricted, and that is our intuition and our instinct kind of working together.
0:22:11 - Betsy Jordyn
So I would say yeah, I picture like my analytical clients who are listening in. It's like, hey, that's cool for you. like right brain, right brain, brainy, kind of creative person, that's cool for you. But I'm a data person, i'm analytics. Like my business is all about, like all of these professional expertise I have, like what are you talking about? Like I'm not intuition, i'm data person. What would you say to that person?
0:22:39 - Puja Madan
Absolutely, you know. So the beautiful thing about who we are is we are both. We really cannot do one without the other, like we have a right and the left brain. We are not meant to just have a right brain or just a left brain.
So for the analytical types and I consider myself, you know, i come from a technology background I'm a very practical, strategic, analytical person And personally, for me, i like to use that after I have integrated, i like to move to my mental plane after my spiritual, emotional and physical planes have been fully aligned, because if I go there too soon, if I go to the mental plane too soon, i will run myself ragged.
I spend too much time here. I don't know the difference between using my mind for creating good things and using my mind to stress myself out and go into anxieties. I do not know how to discern unless my spiritual and emotional and physical energies have been aligned. Then when I activate my mental plane, i am on fire. I get things done quickly. I know exactly the shortest way to get from point A to point B, like I'm very good with the analysis of a situation, but it doesn't help me And this was me in tech, like I was so much in the mentals that I would just have to work twice as much because I was only using my analytical brain.
0:24:09 - Betsy Jordyn
So can you give us a practical, like quick exercise that listeners can do right now to get connected to self?
0:24:17 - Puja Madan
Yes, So I call this the sandwich approach. And I also say analytical as masculine and intuitive as feminine. So I call it the sandwich approach, in that we start with the feminine energy, which is the dreaming, desiring, like, really connecting with our heart energy. This is for goal planning, right? So, starting with the feminine of like, what do I desire? Like, what is the dream and what happens to my body when I'm dreaming like that? So that's the feminine. Then the masculine comes in with like okay, how are we going to make it happen? What's the 90-day plan? What's the, you know, what's the annual plan for this?
How does this break down into daily, weekly, monthly tasks? Right, like, all of the project management part is the analytical, and then we sandwich it again with the feminine soft of like, now I can flow and dance with this And now there's some creative like. I got this idea right. So we want to have structures and frameworks with our spiritual, feminine, you know, intuitive sides, buffering both sides, so that when we do create, it has been considered and reflected and aligned from many different places. So that's like. You know, it's a project management tool I use with my clients.
0:25:33 - Betsy Jordyn
It's very practical. That's great. And also, you just kind of describe what it's like to plan with my left brain husband, because he's all about like data, five-year plan, what's the numbers, and I'm like, but that could be like this and it could be like that. I mean, it could be both, you know, yeah, it could be both.
0:25:48 - Puja Madan
Maybe both masculine, feminine, intuitive, logical, analytical and dreamy. So we need to, like, really create time for both. You know, I have clients where they have like a CEO day and it's just their time to doodle and dream and go take walks and just like feel into the big picture with their business, and then they have very specific, like you know, categorized days for different things And when they look at money and when they do their marketing. So you know, we want to get better and better at integrating our own self first, and then that starts to trickle over into the world. You know, the world becomes more integrated when we are So let's move on to the second part.
0:26:29 - Betsy Jordyn
So connect with South Nellis. Talk about energy, because I feel like that was a big part of the work that you and I also did together. What does it mean to be? is it connected to energy or energy management? What do you mean by that part of your triangle?
0:26:45 - Puja Madan
Yeah, so the way I look at energy management is in three ways. So we have our own day-to-day energy levels, which is a combination of how we are nourishing our mental, physical, emotional, spiritual planes. So that is a discipline of what is the state of mind we wake up in and how we sustain ourselves and our creative goals through the day and through the week. So that's just pure energy. That's a subset of food and exercise and daily rituals. Then we actually have time, which is again a very valuable resource for us as entrepreneurs And because we move from corporate, very fixed structures to very loose structures, we need to get very intentional and conscious about what we are doing with that time And when, again based on the seasons, and just really aligning and harmonizing with the rhythms of our own creation. And so that is the timepiece.
And the third piece is mindset, and that is also part of our energy, because all three of them interact with each other. So if I'm not sleeping well, that's an energy problem. Then I'm not producing well, that's a time problem, and then that affects my mindset because I start to talk myself down. So now we are like you see how each of them interact with each other. So in the energy triangle. We are constantly working on these three main areas of like. How am I on the daily setting myself up to maintain good energy, good time, good mindset, and then you see how that would set us up for strategy, because everything else is like the building blocks are there.
0:28:30 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah, So you're connected to yourself and now you're in the flow and your mind is clear. Then it's like, oh well, then it's just more of like receiving what the strategy is rather than creating the strategy, Not chasing it comes.
So, here's what's interesting. So you and I did a VIP day at the beach a year ago, or almost year, in June. So you and I went through the, we went through the self part, we worked on the energy And then I did a cross country move which was like no, it was like super brutal, exhausting. So it took like months to implement, like the energy part, for the strategy to appear. Is my situation typical, or can you get it done Like if you have the beach retreat for a client, where it's like they can get all three done in a single day, or like what's realistic or in terms of the rhythms and the energies to get this alignment happening?
0:29:24 - Puja Madan
Yeah, that's a really good question And I'll be honest with you. When we do deep spiritual work, like we did with you, in getting alignment with self, you know it really sets in motion a bigger path, a bigger purpose for us, and that is not like in three months that you will know the strategy for that, you know, it kind of really percolates. And so I really recommend to my clients that they come to me at a time when everything is good, you know, and yet they're yearning So things can run smoothly in their business. While they're, in some ways, they're up leveling very significantly in a, you know, like, through the spiritual work they're going to up level, but that will take time to percolate And so they still need to have their day to day operations working and just not, you know, like, have the comfort of a well-oiled machine so that they can give themselves permission and time and space to then up level energetically and spiritually to what is being called off them, you know, to the next level.
And that does take. It has taken six months to a year for most of my clients, but they are in an incredibly aligned place for the rest of their life, you know, and that to that, of course it's like. It's like starting over, it's like a rebirth, you know. So it's worth the time it takes, but it is not always over. Sometimes it has happened like within a few weeks they've found all the right pieces, but I would say it has taken three to nine months for most of my clients to like find that new rhythm and that new sense of purpose and the new strategy from that.
0:31:11 - Betsy Jordyn
But wonder for the differences is between, like, evolutionary change and transformational change. Like if it's like you're just kind of coming in for a tune up, it's like all right, i just wanna, like, i just wanna keep my business in alignment with who I am like, then maybe the you know it's like, okay, let's just like reconnect with self energy, now the strategy. But it's like if you're in transformation, you know, like that will take longer And that's like I have an on how I'm like. Now I know what happened, why I'm in Denver It's because of you, it's because of our work together, because we worked on like tapping into intuition and really I used a lot of that with the move.
But I remember there was an exercise you had me do which is like find a sacred place in my house to like really do my spiritual practice. And I remember like I looked around my house and like I feel like a cage animal, like there's nowhere here, and like my intuition was saying it's like it's time to make a different kind of step change. You know, and maybe that's what the difference was is like tapping into intuition. It's like, well, intuition is not necessarily gonna say, all right, let's speed up and be in you know production mode. It's just gonna be like whatever it is it is and just kind of trusting the intuition through the process, no matter what, the timing is Right.
0:32:21 - Puja Madan
This is such a good point because, you know, in the spiritual realm time is not linear. So the way we approach time and the urgency, especially with like where's my stuff Right, where's the answer? Why? you know that our spirit doesn't, our soul does not operate in that language at all. It just knows what is the best, highest manifestation for us, you know. but we have to really really trust that there is divine timing to certain things. And, interestingly for you, you had been doing your work for so long. You have been so introspective, you know, and you've been so self-aware that by the time we met, let's say, you were already like. you were like the spark with the fire, ready to go right. And so things move for you really quickly, like you manifested many, many things that were more aligned for you very quickly. But imagine that, you know, 10 years ago, if we had done this work, these would be seeds And then one day you would fall in alignment and everything would fall in place.
But you would then say, oh, this is why, right, but so we have to. and I'm seeing for myself, i'm in my 40s and oh my God, there are so many things that were just not meant to happen when they didn't happen. And now I know why And we have to. this is kind of us moving into our crone phase of like being the wisdom keepers as women, is that we now start to see things for their big context and their big picture, and then we can guide the you know, the younger, hungrier ones with some of that wisdom of like, trust, the process, trust the timing, so it sounds like then.
0:34:05 - Betsy Jordyn
So it's like it seems like there's a meta kind of process where it's like self energy strategy And then there's micro processes around self energy strategy And then there's like daily processes of self energy strategy And it's like you're constantly doing it at different levels. But if you're looking at the bigger change, that's going to be a longer type of thing, because now you're looking at transforming your career, your life and that's going to take longer. Then there might be like a up leveling tweaking here and there, but then it's like let's like, let's talk about what it looks like on a daily basis, like a daily practice around self energy strategy. Self energy strategy.
0:34:42 - Puja Madan
Yeah, okay. So what typically most of my clients do, is they what I? there's an Indian saying that each being is like a house with four rooms the mental, the spiritual, the emotional and the physical. and if we don't go into each room, even if it's just to air the room, we're not a complete being. And so my standard recommendation, and something that I get really good feedback about, is for my clients to just check these four boxes off.
So are you doing something for your first thing in the morning? Are you doing something for your body? You know, is your breakfast healthy? Are you moving your body? You know, just getting that part of the energy going.
Then, in the, in the spiritual realm, is there some practice, whether it's meditation or it's prayer or it's journaling, or just, you know, allowing something to move through us that can guide us. So that's the spiritual practice. Then, in the emotional realm, anything that connects us to our heart gratitude spending, you know, having breakfast with family, spending time with pets, just anything that brings us down to our heart so that we can really be operating from there. And then, in the mental practice, i recommend to my clients to like look at their schedule, get ahead of it before it starts to come at you and like blindside you, you know, and sort of book, ending their day with the beginning and the end of like looking at what got done, what still needs to be transferred over to the next day or to the next week. So just having that kind of like reviewing of their schedule.
And this is, of course, much easier when they have looked at their 90 day, their annual goals, right, when we have worked all those out, then they know exactly what needs to get done in this week, right. so then they know exactly what needs to get done in that day And so if they are just reviewing, they're on top of everything and they can. it's kind of like an iterative process in technology. you know, when we're building apps, we scrum every two weeks, right. so they're basically scrumming and looking at what, where are we at, what needs to be tweaked, what needs to be deleted, and you know how do we basically keep the project forward, whatever that project is, you know, whether it's a launch or revenue goal or something you know hiring project, whatever their goals are. So they're kind of inching their way towards it on the daily.
0:37:04 - Betsy Jordyn
So it's like it's getting really clear on what your priorities are and making sure that all the extra stuff is not necessarily in there, like such as like you know, wasting time, as social media might not be there and some of those other things. So let's say somebody says okay, well, I'm super busy, but it's like I, I really like to go for a walk. I, that's meditative for me and I'm physical and I like to listen to music and that connects me to spirit and heart. on, would they have to do three separate exercises or three activities, or could that one activity count for three of the four?
0:37:37 - Puja Madan
Absolutely.
0:37:39 - Betsy Jordyn
So you can be efficient, and then you get back and work on your calendar, and now we're done.
0:37:43 - Puja Madan
One hour, you can knock out three of your. you know, if you can nourish your body and your heart and your spirit in that one walk right, which is what I do I do my 10,000 steps and so I'll sit on the bench and I'll meditate and then I'll listen to a lot of inspirational you know podcasts and stuff, and so I get a lot of nourishment in that time across the board with my body and my heart and my spirit. And then when I come back, i take care of you know some of the other things. and, yeah, i mean you know we are efficient coaches, consultants are smart, efficient people.
0:38:19 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah, because, because you could say, all right, like, maybe it's just doing what you might have done, but with intention. So let's say that you're somebody, because I know a lot of my clients who are going to be listening to this podcast while they're doing going for a walk, but they might not be thinking like, hey, i'm really using this as an opportunity to be physical both physical and intellectual for right now, and like, like, but then if you put the intention, it's like yes, that's what I'm doing here, or if I want to flip it up, or it's like, okay, i'm going to listen to this podcast and then I'm going to listen to music another time, but I'm going to be intentional, like this is my spiritual practice. It just seems like maybe it's just bringing intentionality to what you might have been doing already.
0:38:59 - Puja Madan
Absolutely, i love this and it's intention, it's mindset, it's, like you know, getting in the right mindset. And you know, on Sundays most of my clients plan their week. So if your client, if your audience is listening, they could potentially say, during this walk I can make it into a spiritual practice as well, or I can listen to music every other day or like just sort of plan intentionally how they would like to check some of those boxes while getting all of their nourishment in. Like sometimes we do like to just listen to music while we're working out right, and sometimes we want to be intellectually stimulated. So what is a good balance, you know? so they can sort of get ahead of that and put more intentionality at the beginning of the week for for some of those exercises.
0:39:46 - Betsy Jordyn
And it's also like, if you can, like, if there's an order to what you're doing here, because you mentioned time, it seems like time should come last, you know, because it's still part of that strategy thing, you know. So it's like using the other three rooms to to, to really work on the self energy and then the time, because times your strategy. And then it's like, okay, now I'm connected with intuition, so now I know like, oh yeah, this is how I should plan my time. I should say yes to this and no to that, or I should block this time out.
Now, like even little things, like I was listening to a friend of mine was saying something about, like how you can take five weeks off a year. And she says, like at the beginning of the year, she looks at every fifth week in a calendar and just blocks them off. I'm like, oh yeah, that's a great idea. I've locked them all off. I don't know if I'm going to use it for, like vacation. I might use it for thinking time or all the other things. But you know, just thinking it through, like, why am I doing it? am I doing it because I want to be intentional, because I want to have space for self, you know, or that kind of thing Seems like it's all about the intentionality, but really doing the other stuff first. You're hearing it accurately?
0:40:49 - Puja Madan
Yeah, this is what I love about you is that you listen so intuitively that you can like distill from all the rambling that I was doing. You're like this is what it is, that you're right like the. The others come first, and then the timepiece knocks everything off because you've built the building blocks to be fully in alignment. So the spiritual, emotional, physical comes first, and then the time, the mental timepiece comes in the end and it's very easy to look at what is possible and how to organize it Once you have nourished those other parts.
0:41:27 - Betsy Jordyn
Maybe it's like the four instead of a four rooms there are actually still three rooms. There's the self, energy and and the strategy. So the stuff would be is the spiritual side and the connection to heart and people and the things that nourish you. From that standpoint, the energy is taking care of your body, going for that, and then the time management. So it's the same model at multiple different levels. It's the daily practice, it's the evolutionary practice of whatever you're doing, and then it's the transformational times, but recognizing like I could do this on a daily, but that's like the same thing and having a spirit or spirit, aligned values, aligned business approach to how I do what I do. Then it's like, hey, when I want to up level things or I want to introduce a new program, i still do like, okay, does this align? like I'm working on, like I was, i was playing with something, for I have a community, i have a membership communities called the purpose to profit Academy love it. Our conversation is I want to do more stuff with groups And so I'm doing that.
And I was teaching last week on how to create offers around features and benefits And so I use something that I wanted to create, for examples, and it's like I want to do something around content, like helping people with content, because I love content. And I started working through it. I'm like, hey, wait a minute. Like this seems like a good, this is what I've been wanting to do for a really long time. But it was like somehow like going through this process all over again. It's like, oh well, so that to me it's like, feels like that evolutionary kind of thing. It's not like, it's not like a game changer, it's like transforming my business, but it's like. But it's just something I really wanted to add.
And it's like it's hard to line because I do like playing with content, you know, rather than like, oh, i should do this, like proposal, mentoring, or it's like, okay, my energy's starting to like wane just even mentioning it, like you could see, like you know, versus like yeah, ideas and fun. So it's like also paying attention to that seems like another.
0:43:26 - Puja Madan
Oh, yes, Oh, i love. I love this analogy because it's like one thing is coming out of overflow organically, and that is true. Scaling right, like this is naturally how a tree is not like, oh, i have to go in this direction by these many millimeters every day. Right, it's naturally. Just like going towards something where the sun shines Right, it's growing naturally, versus when we feel we must and we should and our energy actually shrinks. So facing the sun is what we do. When we are aligned, we naturally move towards the sunlight and we grow.
And that's what happened to you in like, just in you, sharing your genius with your community. Something grew from that And then boom, it just felt good, it felt joyful, and we forget that. You know, we are here for joy, we are here to love and we are here to have peace, and if those you know, if those are not being met, then we are not in alignment. So I love that you use this example, because this is a classic example of growing naturally, scaling naturally, without shrinking our integrity and our and our essence in the process.
0:44:38 - Betsy Jordyn
Well, it seems like also like with connecting with the self and the energy. It's like the self would be is like yeah, i can do it, like there's a lot of things that we might want to do as entrepreneurs because I can do it and it can make money. But it's like it's in the like what I would call like the second tier strengths, like it's something I'm capable of doing, but it does not. It doesn't light me up, it doesn't bring any sort of joy. It's not like okay, this is my superpower. Where it's like oh, it feels like play. And then it's also that second part with the energy, like playing around with the energy.
Like does this feel like a fun? does this feel like a fun option? Or does this not Like, how does that feel? like? I love how you don't call workshops workshops. You call them play shops, because we should be playing around with our work, rather than like, oh, i should get it done, this seems monetizable, i should probably do this, this makes sense, you know versus like hey, i get to do this, this would be fun, let's do it.
0:45:32 - Puja Madan
Yeah, you've summarized a few things that in the self triangle really getting clear about our values so that they are guiding what we choose to do next, or actually where we choose what we choose to say no to. And also to constantly remember to stay in our zone of genius, because there's a lot of things we are good at and in the zone of excellence and they're financially rewarding, but they don't light us up, and so we have to ruthlessly stay in our zone of genius and keep saying yes to those type of things where time stops and we come alive and we never get tired, like I'm never tired after a full day retreat at the beach, like I'm flying high. No coaching call, exhaust me, you know. So there's this sense of like being fed by the work rather than being drained by the work, and that comes when we are really aligned with our soulful purpose, with our values and with our genius. And you know, that's all the work that we do in the self section.
0:46:34 - Betsy Jordyn
And then just this one last question on this one, and then we can move on from here. is so what you have to do, though? like so what I would have to do is like I have to get rid of and say no and prune off these things that don't bring me energy. You know, we have to recondo our work. What tips would you give to someone to say, all right, yes, it made you money, it's, it fed your career up to this point. It's no longer serving.
Is there a ritual or is there something that you could recommend that would allow somebody to let that go without feeling like, oh, i spent so much money and time developing this. Like, what is there something that you could offer around a ritual of saying letting that stuff go?
0:47:16 - Puja Madan
Yeah, the timing of this, let's see this is spring and spring is really a time for dvding and decluttering and clearing out space for something new to be birth. So I do feel that you know, through winter we get clear and in spring is when we take action and on what needs to stay and what needs to go. And you know, a very clear filter Of course we always want. I mean, for you know, both you and I have been in different stages of entrepreneurship. So if we are still in the bread and butter, like putting food on the table, i would not recommend to anybody to let anything go and like not have anything solid to stand on. So if you're doing something that is not fully soulful feeling but it is putting, you know, putting food on the table at this time, then do that and then work on other things, on what clear space in other areas to like let something else come. But if, if some of the audience is fully settled in that way, i would highly, highly recommend to just energetically sit with a program, whether it's like a folder or like print out, you know, if it's a digital program or it's a course like really to sit with it energetically, meditate and pray on it and feel its energy, to see. Is it pulsating with life Or does it actually feel like something in the body?
Our body has so much intelligence. It will shrink or expand based on what feels true to it. You know, so I would. I would invite them to test through the heart and through the body on what feels, what feels opening to the body and to the heart, and to keep that and then to run it for another six months, one year, and then do it again, because you know we can't.
Life is not static. We have to keep revisiting and clearing and, you know, introducing new things and releasing old things. So so I would say that that would be a great ritual to really sit in meditation with, with that work, the body of work, and really, if it needs to go, to give so much thanks for it because it it brought so many people, it was market research, it brought revenues, it helped you understand yourself better. You know there's so many gifts from it. So to really just write down everything that you're grateful for, that you're, you know that it has brought into your life, and then to let it go slowly or through, you know, flash sale or something like that, and just to have a nice goodbye party for it, you know.
0:49:41 - Betsy Jordyn
That's a great idea, like a flash sale, you know, like there's something about that. Well, i love this gratitude practice because I think that people get too literal around, like, oh, i invested in this and it made me money. Or maybe I invested in this and it didn't make me money, but instead of being more expansive around like wait, there's all these other gifts that it came gave you, like it. You know, i have a course that I had for years and it's, you know, it's one of those things that it's I know energetically. I've been needing to let this thing go for a long time And but it's like it taught me how to write courses and taught me how to. It got me onto Kajabi, which led me to be able to create websites and all the things that I can do now and help, you know, move me into the branding and all the things that I love. But this iteration, it's like it doesn't really serve anymore. It's not.
It's not who I am anymore, but I could be grateful for all the other things And I love this idea like being grateful And then when you let it go, you know to just do it in that like of a place of positive where, rather than what, a lot of people might feel like, oh, i'm such a failure, it didn't work, or maybe it did work and I don't love it anymore.
0:50:46 - Puja Madan
And now it's not making money because I think at some point it's not going to make money for you anyway, right, i feel like we tend to get bitter and angry towards the end with some things and it's really important that they were like teach they were. They were big guiding posts for us. You know, we learned so much through through those processes and we are who we are because of our creations, no matter how they have done their time and it's time to let them go. So to really just have gratitude is it's a beautiful, beautiful way to create space for something new, because we cannot let go of something with anger and bitterness and resentment and then hope that something fantastic will come through right. That's not good energy to invite for the next phase of our, of our careers. So I hope this is helpful.
0:51:33 - Betsy Jordyn
So how can people work with you and how do they get a hold of you?
0:51:36 - Puja Madan
Yes, So I'm like you, going, coming out of my winter and really excited about a few new phases in my life. So the one thing we're doing this year is our digital programs. We have started something called the Radiant Presence Academy on ThinkEffect, so we are on ThinkEffect and so we're launching, you know, a bunch of very low cost, affordable digital programs mostly designed for women, around the time, energy, mindset, kind of pieces that they can tackle. And then, of course, there's the beach retreats during fall and spring that we got it You got to tell more about the beach retreat.
0:52:17 - Betsy Jordyn
Let's share, like briefly, what the beach retreat is all about, because it's amazing. Graduate of the beach retreat, i'm wearing my beach, my beach themed outfit for my conversation with Pooja.
0:52:31 - Puja Madan
Would you share what drew you and what happened for you? I think that would be the best way for me to talk about the retreat, because you, you know, you just took it and you, you grew wings from it and it just has to this day. It has moved me so much.
0:52:47 - Betsy Jordyn
Oh, this is good, because then I can get you to give you a testimonial through my podcast as well, so this works out great, so okay. So what turned my head initially is you were a speaker at a retreat I was at with Carol Cox and speaking your brand, and there was a few things that you said that turned my head initially or just right away. Like we, there was some energetic connection, there was stuff for your story, obviously, that moved me. But when you talked about this model that we've been talking about, it's like oh, that makes so much sense to me, like this is the most logical thing I've ever heard, like this makes so much sense. And then you had also said in that retreat about as a speaker, like the audience is there for you, like there's a specific audience for you And there's something about like the way that you communicate your story or whatever your message is that you're the right container for a particular audience. You may not be for everybody, but your audience is there for you. And I'm like, okay, those those things like made sense. And I remember coming back and talking to my husband and I'm like Larry, he was there and I wasn't even my husband yet. It was like right before, like right before we got married, and I'm like I'm going to have to do this, like I know I'm going to have to do this, but I need to work with Pooja somehow I'm not sure what it is And then, i think it was somewhere in the beginning of June, we started talking about it, or no, we had lunch and we started talking about it, talking to just some more, and the to me, the beach retreat was like a day long reset.
So I had gone through a lot of transitions with my business that were kind of like still hanging on. I still I hadn't had the space to really process them And that my strategy really wasn't being clear because I had lost sight because of what had happened before around, like what is my voice, what is my brand, what is it that I'm all about? And so that and I knew my energy because I had been processing so many different transitions between, you know, getting married and my, my kids growing up and, you know, become, you know, this empty nest or looming and all these other changes. So what I feel like what we did at the beach. There was a lot of activities that we did And, i'll be honest, like. It's not like okay, well, all of these coaching I've never. It's not like some of the exercises we did. It's like, oh, i'm like. I wasn't, like, i never saw them before, but there was something about the energy of our conversations, but it's like the connecting back with self and the intuition And it's like and connecting back with my spiritual core. That that's what made the difference.
And so once I mean from that point, that was like June 24th when we had that retreat, my house was sold and on the market to move to Denver within a month after that And it's like, and all of the process was based on intuition, like my gut says it was time for a fresh start And I knew it. And then my whole house buying process it was all based on intuition. You know, making the decisions around what stays in my house and what doesn't was all based on intuition. How I decorated my house was all based on intuition And creating space and making sure I have a place in my home for like my meditative space and making sure I had meditative spaces in my home, and all of that happened. Now, like the time period of like, activation of strategy obviously, as we mentioned, took a little bit, but it was like connection to self And so to me that's what was so powerful around, like I'm connected to my intuition.
I know when things don't feel well, you know don't feel like an alignment and and the courage to say no and this, i don't want to do those things that don't feel an alignment anymore And I feel like I'm showing up now differently for my clients, like I feel like really present and really less less concerned around, like my mistakes, my flaws, things that would have, you know, made me feel embarrassed, like oh you're, you know, i don't want to, i don't want to find out, i don't have all my stuff together. It's like, hey, you know what? that one's a mistake, my bad, no problem. Or I do have challenges in my life. It's not like I have this. You know, i had it all figured out. I left Disney and I created this perfect life and it all worked out perfectly. That's not it. So I don't know if that answers your question around the retreat or my question around the retreat.
0:56:51 - Puja Madan
I'm so moved by your words You didn't give me all the details, you know, since we we have reconnected but your vulnerability being just willing to show up as who you are, without having to put these masks and these facades of like I have my shit together I feel like that is what we're all yearning for And I'm sure it makes you so compelling and magnetic to your people. Because ultimately, you know, of course we are subject matter experts, but we're like messy humans that are like going through all kinds of things And just all the alignment that you, you know we were talking about even before. I'm just really, really moved that that one day sparked so much forward movement and growth and expansion in your life.
0:57:37 - Betsy Jordyn
Thank you for sharing that with me Well, thank you for sharing your guests with me. Thank you So well. Is there anything else that you'd want to talk to me about, as it relates to creating a soulful business, a spiritually aligned business, values aligned business, and I'm just not asking you the right questions.
0:57:55 - Puja Madan
Oh no, you asked just all the perfect questions. We had such a such a meaningful, rich conversation today.
