Get ready for a powerful conversation around how to use storytelling to ignite personal and global trans information with my guest joy Spencer on this episode of the Enough Already podcast. And welcome to The Enough Already podcast. This is the show for consultants and coaches want to forge their own path to success in their businesses, careers, and their lives. I'm your host, Betsy Jordyn, and today we're wrapping up my mini storytelling series with my guest joy sponsor. She's a powerful storyteller. Originally, I wanna join the show because I wanted her to share her tips and best practices on how how to tell compelling stories. But what we wound up talking about was so much more powerful. We talked about the role of storytelling and igniting change in transformation, in ourselves, our clients in the world. And for those neuroscience junkies out there, joy is gonna be giving us the science behind why storytelling is so powerful and why it does create transformation like nothing else. So without further ado, let's get started. So welcome to the show. Joy, I'm so excited to have you here. I'm so excited to be here, Betsy. Thank you for inviting me. So before we get into all the details around how consultants and coaches could take their storytelling game to the next level, I'd love to back up and talk a little bit about you and your career and what your business is all about. Sure, sure. Thank you so much.
So my business is about helping professionals to move from a productivity mindset and mindset of just hashing things out and sort of trying to rise a corporate ladder to being people who are tapped into the fact that we're born creators and we have unique gifts and contributions to make and encouraging people to create with their gifts. Created either a product, a service, an experience, or a project because I believe that's that's what our work really is and what we're here to do. Real work is not our job or our career. It's what we create. And that's the overarching mission I believe that we all have. So I'm really intrigued by what that looks like for individual people and all my work is about helping them to do that and to get there. And what I found and what sort of often gets people stuck is the stories that they tell and the narratives that are running in their heads and that we sort of live with. And so that's another that's sort of like the lead in and another aspect of my work in the coaching, storytelling coaching, and how I'm using it as a device, both to help people use it to be better in their work, but also as a developmental tool for growth and getting to be better and greater creators. So that's why That's what reframe to create is about.
And So interesting. Oh my gosh. Yeah. There's a lot in there. Yeah.
So I have, like, three different ways that I wanna go with you on this one because they're all equally interesting paths for us to talk about. I love the idea of creating and that being a key element of our career. And I think that's really important for consultants and coaches because we have to, you know, really craft our own path or our own place on the org chart. You know, there's no really a formal place. So why don't I talk to you about that? So it's one thing I heard you say.
The second is the internal narrative. And that's a foundation of your ability to kind of create your own position in the market, but also being an effective storyteller. And then, of course, what we wanna talk about is how do you create this story? So is it okay if I go with you on all three of that directly? Let's do all of those. Yes. Okay. So let's talk about this whole idea of our job isn't necessarily about productivity, but about creating and specifically speak to my audience of consultants and coaches who are really creating their own businesses, they're creating their own place on the org chart. How does that work?
So I I think they already probably know and had that inkling because a lot of times consultants or independent entrepreneurs probably came not all, but came out of the nine to five world, came out of a world where they were in jobs or careers that might not have had very prescribed dictated paths, but there was sort of a sense of this is what you do. You get this certification. You get this degree. This is the this is the path. This is what's expected. This is what's sets look like.
And in those spaces, we often have a sense of but there's there's not that there's more in the space, but I have more. There's more that I want to give and there's more that's different. And I feel like I'm a I'm a little bit of a box here. Like, this doesn't quite fit How does it all fit together? How can I express this? Or or bring all the different things that I have together to create something new and different? So they already know this. They've they and a lot of people feel this and have this sense about it, and that often launches people off.
Whether they do it full time and leave and become full time consultants and have their own businesses or do it on the side, but there's this yearning to create something new, beautiful, that's really a reflection of who they are and how they are on the inside. So and to do that, to be of service. To have an impact on on the world in your own unique way. And so I I applaud that and I think that that's a right instinct that people have. And if there if people are doing that in any sort of small way, I always encourage people continue doing that because I think it's absolutely indispensable no matter whether you're in a more structured setting or not. You have to find ways and spaces to express that. And, you know, the venue to me doesn't matter. Just the act and process of creating is what is important. Yeah.
So it's almost like if you're in a in a job, you know, you don't have to be constrained by the box of your job title and your responsibilities, you could be an entrepreneur. You can take with initiative and maybe a little bit of moxie. You know, you can you can make your job be what you want it to be. You can create within your organization. But it sounds like there's, like, also, like, you start working on it from that standpoint, you might wanna continue on that journey and be outside of that box. Is that is that what you see as a path that people typically go down? Exactly. Because I I see it as being mission your mission minded, and your mission is always to create And as I said, you don't get stuck into, which is what I think a lot of people do, don't get stuck or distracted by the vehicle, by the box.
You're in a nine to five job, you know, and you have a whole other passion. You try and, you know, you try to introduce this this thing in, you try to create some things in the space and they're like, thanks, but no no thanks. There's absolutely no room for that. That should not be the end of the matter for you. You know, provided that you you you're taking care of that's the whole other thing. Taking care of yourself and managing your energy, you it it behoves you to find another space or venue for that. Somewhere outside, maybe it's volunteer work, maybe you start your side hustle, something else, but that mission is still important and it still applies to continue to create with your gifts. And it doesn't have to be something that you make money from. That's the other thing.
So I'm trying to help people Did distance themselves from all the excuses and things that get them stuck? Oh, it has to be in my nine to five job. No, it doesn't. It can be outside of it. And you can still keep your nine to five if you want to. You don't have to leave it. It's not either or. Oh, I have to figure out how to monetize this thing. If it's not monetized, I can't do it. No, that's not an excuse. You know, still still find other ways to bring this into the world. It could be something that you do and give for free. So the venue doesn't matter and whether you're getting paid for it or not doesn't matter. Those are all options and choices that are available to you.
What does, what is not, you know, negotiable is to be about the mission of creating with your guests. I love that because, like, you've you've just stated what I teach all the time about, like, you know, take charge of your positioning, find a place on the org chart that you want, you know, have a vision. But I like what you're saying even more because it's more about like own your own mission wherever you are. Own your own creative gifts and your own desires. And you stated even better of, like, why I actually left Disney to start my business is I did that as an entrepreneur for years and years and years. I mean, I don't think I ever really except for, like, maybe the first five years in when I was like an international HR person, I ever really stayed within the box anyway. But it was like, I can't do I can't stay within the box. I have keep creating and I have to keep going and doing my own thing. And I love the way you're talking about that because it is that same mission. The only thing I would probably just say it's like, but everything really actually is monetizable. Mhmm. I don't know if you would agree with me on that one.
I was doing this little talk for when my daughter was in fifth grade, I was doing one of those, like, teaching kind of things where you talk about, like, what do you do? You know, the parents come in and So I'm like, well, I help kids figure out, like, I help grown ups figure out what they wanna be when they grow up. And so the way I described it and all the kids were like horrified. But I had I brought something like a little treat for everybody in the in the group, and I I had this basket. And I remember when I was in college, this kind of like stuck into my head is like when I was in college, there was a major for basket weaving. And I remember like, we're like, what are you gonna do with basket weaving? And then I held this sitting up. I'm like, oh, I bought this basket. You know, somebody made money off of this.
And it's like and that's where it's like in my mind. It's like everything's monetizable. Everything is with smart strategy because there's a need for everything in every creative gift or every vision or every mission that somebody feels in their heart. Would you agree with that or is there am I off on that? No. I I think so.
I think I think if you if that's what people want and that's a possibility, I think what I what I'm cautioning people on is using the fact that they're stuck or not able to figure that out as a reason to not create. Gotta still need to keep moving on and moving forward. And if don't let that be a barrier, maybe you'll figure it out, maybe you'll eventually get to it, but if you're like, oh, I don't know how to monetize it, so I'm not gonna do anything. No. That's that's that's not the mission that we're on. Like, still keep creating because some things that you create, you may immediately figure out how to monetize and others it may take a while. But either way, I'm trying to take away all the excuses that people are making for not creating with their gifts.
So that brings us to the second thing that I wanted to follow-up with you on is the internal stories and the narratives because it seems like that must be as a part of that internal narrative that would keep somebody from creating and forging their own path what they wanna do with their mission. Yeah. So it's it's things like my you know, everything is about the job or the career and it has to fit in that box. It's it's if things like, oh, I must be able to monetize it or I I can't move on or, you know, if if I if I I don't wanna be a business owner, so that's my only choice of my only option I have to leave my job.
Things like that that keep people thinking about this in such a narrow way instead of broadly, you have gifts, you have you have talents, and there's something that you can do with that. The world needs you to create something with that and offer it in service. So I I would say create with your gifts and offer it in service to at least one other person because that's the other thing that gets into people's gets people stuck. This idea of you gotta go big or you gotta go home. I gotta be you know, if I can't be Oprah, I need to, like, you know, shrivel up like a tiny little worm. And die in a corner, a silent death, and it's like, no. You know, like, so that's what I say offered in service to at least one other person.
And even before that, I also I have a I have something, you know, called create framework which stands, you know, which is it's, like, all through all six of the letters stand for something. But the e stands for expressing your gifts for yourself. So even before you get to, it's activating it for the world, which is a and offering it to the world, just expressing it is valuable. You know, just just you, you know, you in your in your pattery rooms, creating your pottery pieces, even if none of them ever see the light of day, none of them ever get sold that work is still important. It still matters.
And so these are all the things that people sometimes suppress, the stories that they tell themselves, and it's like, oh, if I can't you know, something if nobody likes it, you know, I shouldn't do it. Or if no if I can't sell it, it's like, no. Creating, you know, to this is to to me, creating is to the soul, what breathing is to the body, you have to do it. You you know, it's such an important part of who you are, and so I want really hope people can liberate themselves from all the stories they tell themselves about. These are all the barriers and reasons which I can't and shouldn't create and just tell better, bigger, and broader story that invites them to continuously be in that state and that posture. And then so much can come from that. We we just don't know. And that's part of the fun and the adventure of it. What will come from the things that you create? So somebody might be listening and say, alright, cool.
You know, somebody who wants to do partnering art. I can kinda see those guests, but like someone like my husband who's a finance guy. Who does not have like a crafty creative bone in his body necessarily. No offense. He's a wonderful person, but he's very left brain. He loves data. You know, he loves like he does like genealogy on the side and he does that for fun. I would probably say that that is a creative expression in his way. You know? Like, he's not artistic, but he's super creative when it comes to figuring out, like, different people's genealogy. And he loves it, and he's fascinated by it. Is that is that an example? Well, that's another distinction I make because, like, I I try not to use the word creative because people have a narrow view of what creative and creativity is. They think create the creative people out of people who do art or who dance or who act or, you know, do pottery.
And I that's why we talk about, create, it's a verb, the act of bringing something to life. And creating experiences. So so someone who is really into data and is able to bring the data together and share insights even in a conversation is creating an experience with another person as potentially a learning experience. So you create experiences. You can create a project. You can create a product. You can create a service. And it's all about the verb the act of creating. And, you know, engineers create, you know, data scientists create -- Very much. -- excited, like, see, you know, scientists create, you know. It's not just, you know, dancers and and authors who create.
So I I believe that this is just an integral part and a natural part of being human. And so we have all these things that we say, like, oh, well, I'm not creative. It's like, no. Fine. Okay. People like, oh, I'm not creative. I'm not even gonna fight people on that. I'm just gonna ditch the whole word and say, okay, but you do create. And so that's what we're talking about. Keep creating. Yeah. So you may not be an artist, but you're creative in your own ways. Like, one of my favorite initiatives that I witnessed when I was at Disney was this pricing strategy reinvention, you know, where they took, like, single day tickets or multi day tickets that they they turned it into this whole package thing and it was, like, super creative. It turns of, like, being outside of the box. And it's, like, totally reinvented the way we thought about things, you know, or I look at the industrial engineers. I love that. My words up sussed with the industrial engineers at Disney who figured out, like, how to do fast passes and all these other things.
And I think that that's such a key thing is using whatever your gifts are to create experiences or like with my husband who's obsessed with data, you know, we went on a long walk this weekend and he knows all the history where we just moved to. We just moved to Denver. And he know he told me story after story, and it's like, okay. It was interesting, you know, in his way, created an experience. It wasn't just a walk. It was like a little historical tour. Of my brand new town.
And I like the way that you're talking about that. So natural sorry. It's it's natural to and and part of it is reminding people that they're already due you're already doing this. This is already who you are, and it's just about breathing your awareness to be more intentional about doing it more. That's literally what I was just gonna ask you. It's like, well, how would somebody find out, like, what these gifts are in their creative expression in their way. How would they figure that out? And I think what you're saying is, notice it, is there are other tips that you would give someone to bring more intentionality to creating from their own gifts. So there's there's something I I I do and and and this is more for for professionals or folks who have a resume, which I call it, I call it a resume activation. And I have people go through their resume and look at all the things that they created. Created, things that they initiated that sort of they were like, this is a great idea. I wanna do this thing. And to have them go through the experience of finding all the ways in which they they've come up with projects. They've come up with, you know, services. They've come up with these different experiences. And what are the things that they lean towards that they love to do?
You can also ask people in your community, you know, ask your friends, ask people like, you know, and this is asking an experiential question, which is you know, what is it that what is it that you what is it that I tend to create when we're together or when we're in a group of friends? Or or what type of experience do I tend to create? Because that's tend tends to be what we, you know, do in in in groups. We're usually creating experiences. But not always, you know, you might be, you know, creating products or bringing people together for certain things.
So observe being more observant obviously, but just sort of following the breadcrumbs in your own career. What are the things that you naturally created on in your role, but also off to the side because you just couldn't help yourself. You just spontaneously. We're like, oh, I want, you know, to bring this thing to life. But then also ask other people around you. They're the great they're great observers of this. What are some things that you've seen me create? Over the years that you've known me. And and here what it is that they say, and and it might there might be some things that are surprising, but a lot of times it'll be confirmation of who you are.
That's what it was like for me when I switched into this new career of coaching. I had a colleague I mean, there were a lot of different bread crumbs along the way. But a colleague of mine, he knows, kept telling me, like, you really manage our boss. Really well. Like, you manage up really well. He's like, you you should you should totally be a coach. You've coached me. But for a long time, people kept saying, you're a coach, you coached us and all this stuff.
And so when I got to a point where I wanted to do an you know, I was frustrated and I wanted to do something else. I asked myself that question, you know, what would it look like for me to be paid to be myself? What would you look like for me to just, you know, this is me. What does me as a in a profession look like? And I just I, you know, I swirled around with it, and then I just came back to I'm like, they've told me this. They've told me this for years. And I was like, oh, it's being a coach, and then I went to get my certification.
So the entire coaching certification journey, I felt that I was just getting the tools to professionalize who I already was. It wasn't something new. It was it was it was really enhanced it, enhancing and strengthening who I already was. So the breadcrumbs are already there. So it's just it's just following the trail. Can you say that one sentence again about getting paid for yourself? Like, again, it's slowly. So, like, the audience could really -- Yeah. -- take in the sentence of, like, what this means. Yes.
So I was stuck in my career and I was watching a boss who was so passionate and excited about everything that he was doing every single day, and I wanted that. And so I knew I got to a point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. I need to go on some journey of self exploration. And the question that I asked myself was, what would it look like for me to be paid, to be myself? And you know, weeks, months, you know, not not up to a year, but just of having that question whirl around in my head and asking it again and again and again, I eventually, you know, the I the the the answer dawned on me. You know, as I put all the pieces together from what others had been telling me and what I discovered about my natural meaning was becoming a coach. And so I think that's great question for other people to sit with and sink into. What would it look like for me to be paid to be myself? Love that.
Like, so to me, like, there's a a three things that I would probably draw out of this as it relates to the narrative that you tell about yourself and what's possible. So one of the things that I have my clients do during my brain messaging program is ask people, you know, what am I best at? You know, what do I do that's unique compared to other people? But I think what you're adding is a very different question that is even more powerful is the question is, what is it that I create? Whatever you observe me create. That's the question. So that would be application one for those who are listening is really think about that and to start asking people that question. Seems like the second thing is really paying more mindful attention to all the breadcrumbs, you know, throughout your own life. You know, I probably just add in, it's like whatever brought you energy, whatever brought you joy, pay attention to that, but the real kicker.
The real kicker that I would encourage everybody who's listening in is to take in this question around what would it look like to get paid to be who I am? Like, that's that's powerful. Like, that's, like, you know, one of those, like, if op you know, if we talk about Oprah, like, you know, like tweet this, you know, if I were Oprah, which I'm not, you know. But that's that's such a powerful phrase. Love that. So on okay.
So let's let's continue on because when talking speaking about oh, okay. I have some can I add something to that? And and I wanna remind people of I wanna remind people about when you ask that question, to remember that the answer is not tied to a particular venue. Oh, yeah. Right? So when you say be paid to be myself. It doesn't necessarily be paid through a job or paid through a career. There are so many different ways to be paid so many different ways to take in income and make money. And it could be all of the above or none or or stop. So that's that's the other thing not to get stuck. And what would it look like to get paid to be myself? Not necessarily paid by a job or career or business, but just paid. Right. Be what that looks like. And the key is is to be myself.
Like, it's not this fake version of what you think authenticity is. I think that that's one of those things that are out there right now with authenticities. We think that we have to say, like, hey, look at you being all smart and stuff. It's like, well, yeah, that's authentic if that's how you talk. But if you don't sit there and do fingerpistles, and say, you know, look at you pick all smart stuff. This is not authentic, you know, to speak yourself or whatever it is.
One of the big moments for me and my latest rebranding is right before I did that. I got rid of all my suits because I hate suits, and they always make me feel like I'm wearing a straight jacket. And it's like what people said. Like, oh, but you're really good. Like, dating in front of a group of people, and you could get executives to be on alignment and all of that. I'm like, yeah. But why do I have to wear suits?
And my daughter, she was doing something for my birthday shortly thereafter. And she gave me of, like, this picture of l Woods. And she's like, you know, I love that you are going to command a bar a boardroom and a pink dress, you know. And this whole idea of like being yourself, like, you command a boardroom as yourself, you know, and you could do all of these things as yourself. So I love that, and that's such a huge thing.
But speaking of as yourself, one of the things that I noticed about you, that you turn my head, there's so many things that you talk about that turn my head, but we were in a workshop together and you were sharing about how to tell stories. And it was like riveting on the edge of my seat. She's like, my gosh. This woman is like unreal with storytelling. And I know that you're pivoting a lot of your coaching to be doing more of the storytelling coaching. Can you talk a little bit about how you discovered like storytelling how you move from, like, I'm just really good at it to being more conscious. So it's like, hey, wait a minute. Storytelling is a big one of these bread crumbs. So the the unconscious piece was just, you know, just doing it every day and just being that being how I talk and also it being how being the it being the water of the world of social justice and policy advocacy that I lived in.
Storytelling, was such an integral part of everything that we did in addition to narrative building. So before I got into being a coach and into what I'm doing now, I was in, you know, access to essential medicines movements or online privacy movements, and everything about what we did was changing and shifting the the narrative of these movements and telling individual stories that would support movement through that. But we never spoke about it in those terms and I never really consciously saw and observed it in that particular way. So I started working at a financial institution and I got a project from my boss, which was a storyteller video series that had been around but had sort of, you know, been paused for a while and they needed someone to take it back up. And this was a video series with our senior leaders, and I my role was to coach them and support them in unearthing and crafting their stories to share for the videos that would go out enterprise wide. And the rest is history.
That was just a a a new venue and a new packaging for me discovering that this was a unique talent of mine and something that I was really good at. I I became I I was like, oh, I'm I'm good at really helping them get to a point where they're able to dig into a personal side and aspect of them. And unearth what that the meaning of that, help them make new meaning of it. And then deliver it in a story form and then work with the digital media team to, you know, package it and, you know, and into a video and then share it enterprise wide. And the response was quite phenomenal in riveting. People were really excited, and often shared a lot of comments, and really just a a a a culture shift in our organization of how people saw and see our leaders and the expectation of how much vulnerability and how much gets shared. And then it just sort of became the vehicle that I started using for all my coaching.
So I thought it's it's not just about the end product of telling a story, but there's something that happens to the storyteller in the process of unearthing and crafting their story. It's a transformational journey that they go on in the process of getting to this so called end product. And it really is the transformations that we look to bring to our clients in coaching. So it was a perfect marrying of my executive leadership coaching and with with storytelling as a tool to bring folks through this particular transformation. And then I couldn't get enough of it. Right? So I was like, okay. Can I do some other ways and spaces so I you know you know it got connected with and thought out and and worked with, you know, as you know Carol and Diane on speaking your brand, I do storytelling and speaking coaching with them? I also do storytelling and teaching and speaking with Story District, which is a a the leading storytelling organization in Washington DC.
And so for me, that's a way that I'm living out my mission of creating experiences. Right? I'm not limiting myself to one organization. I'm like, oh, this is a talent. This is a gift. This is something that I create with my gifts, what are all the different ways and spaces that I can do that? And it's and it's been something that's just yielded so much joy and so much insight and you know, so much fulfillment for me. And I think also for my client -- Yeah. -- impact, I would definitely say. I mean, I remember the story that you shared in the workshop that we were together and because it's like it resonates.
So I wanna follow-up on one things that you said around the connection between the story that the storyteller does and the transformation of your clients. Because I know that that's a key element, but I know it's been a journey to get to that mindset because I always believe that what I bring to the table is like, hey, I'm an organization my consultant and I have always years of experience and I got a master's degree and I worked at Disney or I you know, like, and a lot of my clients think it's like it's about our credentials or coaches in particular. You know, we they get trained very much, like, especially through ICF. It's like it's about the process and I'm not a person. I'm just like a mirror for the client. You know, like, I'm just I'm just there, you know.
And how would you how would you bust some of those beliefs to say, no, there's a connection between your story as a transformation agent and the transformation that you're gonna create with your clients. What's the relationship? Well, it's it's a journey and it and it's it's about connection. Right? So there's we we we learn we learn together, we journey together, and and who you are matters. And there's something I was saying.
I was like, you can never go you know, you could only go as far as who you are. Who we are, our identity, and where we are at this particular moment is what makes us the type of consultants or coaches that who we are. We're not interchangeable. We're not replaceable. So the way that you journey with your clients and who you are at that particular moment that you're journeying with them has a direct and and powerful and connected impact on the type of journey that they'll have. And and, you know, what the level of vulnerability they'll be able to have with you and how far far they'll be able to go. In who they'll be able to be able to become and how they'll be able to shift in the time that they work with you in order to get to the end of whatever it is that they want because, you know, we create from who we are, wherever we are at that particular point in time. And so it's not this distant or disconnected thing. It's not just about, oh, your your your skills and your talents and all those things are tools that you have in your hand.
But, you know, if you if you think about it, you know, it's like, you know, doctors are human beings. They're unique. They all go yes. They all go to medical school. I believe so. I hope they do. They all go to medical school. Right? Your doctor, I hope your doctor would have been a school. Thank you. Right yet. They've gone to medical school. They've acquired these skills in these tools. But those are things in their hands. You know, you you wouldn't just, you know, you wouldn't just go, you know, to someone who was holding a scalpel and be like, oh, you know how to hold a scalpel. You're good. Like, you're like, no. Like, you know, It's the whole person, but it's not just there's the learning that they got from the school. It's also their their their empathy and their bedside manner. All those things. Like, we're there's just so many things that go into making us who we are, which makes for the type of things and experiences that we're able to create. And so if all of those things is those things can't be can't be split apart or separated.
What is it about a story that creates more of the stage for a bigger transformation in somebody else than just facts data, methodologies, tool you know, all those tools in the toolbox. Like, what is it about story? That is such, you know, you mentioned it through your social justice and that creates change. What is it about story that's so powerful? Well, I mean, this is I mean, we're we could possibly get into neuroscience of it, but it's like stories are, you know, the way that human beings come to understand the world and make meaning in the that's such a fundamental way of who we are. It's how we connect. It's how we build empathy between each other. And there's, you know, there's this thing called neurocoupling.
When you hear someone sharing a story, you you experience and sort of like start to change to that person and build this sort of empathy and connection with them. So it's a very powerful experience. It's a very powerful modality because it really transports us into other experiences, other other spaces, other other ways of looking at the world. It's just this it's just this way that we're able to move and and shift and nothing else can, you know, do do that in that same way for us. Like data doesn't do that. We're we're emotional beings, you know, rationalizing our decisions that we've already made emotionally. You know, it's not the with not the other way around. And so story is that powerful device for it, but it's also the it's also the water. That we we live in. It's just such an integral part of our of being human and going deep to the depths of who we are.
So when you hear someone's story, you connect to them and they're able to have an influence. They're able to influence you in a word that that that some authors uses, like, sway you. And so that's the sort of, like, the power of of story that sort of, like, bypasses another sort of, like, rational parts of our brains. But even for yourself, you you when you go through the process of working on a story, unearthing a story, and recrafting it. You're you're you're making new meaning. This is a process. You often are looking at things that you've already been through and have already experienced and you're attaching new meaning to what those things are and what they mean. And that new meaning has the potential to open new doors of possibilities for you. Of looking at the world and then taking different action in a new way. So it it it really is a powerful way of moving and being in the world because our stories either limit us or set us free for something new.
So interesting because I kinda have a visualize visual in my head around the three things that I wanted to talk to you about is it's kind of like a process, if you will. Is that if you are moving from, like, a corporate leadership job into, like, a consulting coaching business because you wanna make a bigger difference, you know, it really begins with that. First thing that we talked about is like really becoming a creator of your own mission. And then it's like really taking on your own narratives because it's like as because the change happens with your own narratives and as you go through that journey, that is what you have to offer. And everything else is just a tool. Like, people spend so much time worrying about the certifications. Am I asking the right questions and all those things? But it's the story And when I work with my clients through their brand messaging and positioning, the last thing we work on is their stories because and what I tell them is, like, people are gonna wanna know this stuff anyway.
So you be you should be prepared. You know? So when people ask you, like, so what are you up to know? Like, what do you do? They don't really want, you know, more titles. Like, they want a story. Like, oh, well, you know, you know, like the way I teach is like, you know, so you know when people are struggling with this is what I do, this is the value. And then the other big question is, is, well, why would you ever leave a corporate? To start your own business, and you should be ready, and I'm sure there's other stories. Like, what tips would you give to someone who wants to get better?
Hit not telling people what they do, but telling the story about what they do, or telling the story about why they do it, or just telling the story in the course of their conversations with their clients? Like, how did they get better at it? Well, one of the most important things to remember is that the personal is universal. And so people are often hesitant to share their stories because they're like, oh, well, this is this is still personal to me. It doesn't it's not relevant to other folks. And it is. That personal story, your personal experience is universal because you're probably taking them into a story about your fears, your your your feelings of stuckness. And those are things that people can connect with and reflect on and connect in within themselves. And that's gonna build your credibility and your influence with them because they're like, oh, they get it because they've they've seen this and they've experienced it as well. And so so first getting comfortable and remembering and understanding the value of your story that the more personal you're making it, the more people are gonna more people will be able to connect with it rather than less.
And then storytelling is about bringing people into specific moments. It's about bringing us into a specific scene. It's not about giving me the broad overarching arc of, like, well, you know, when I was five, this happened then when I was six, this happened then I was seven. That's not a story. You're giving you know, you're sort of like, walking me through the long resume of your life. But a story really the power of it is bringing me to a specific moment. So just sort of saying like, when I was seventeen, you know, one day, you know, I was, you know, where were you? What what, you know you know, when were we? You know, in the story and who was there, you, which other person, what was said, what happened, what were the feelings, what were the emotions, really bring us into the moment and bring us into a single scene, and then you can step back and reflect on it. And so what I learned from this is this. And what I get from this is this particular thing. So that's that's the other thing that it's not about telling your entire life story in all the different moments but picking a particular moment and then drawing lessons from it because it's too overwhelming, it's too distracting to try to do everything and all the moments. Bring us to a specific moment, a specific space, a specific place, and you know, give us that microscopic view with as many details as possible and then talk about what you learn from it and what we can learn from it as well.
So let's pretend that I'm a former colleague of yours and we used to work together in some corporation and now we run into each other And I'm so curious, like, what the world are you up to? You know, how would you you how would you tell me like, can you give me an example of a story of, like, how you can engage me into whatever it is you're doing now about the storytelling coaching and what you do in your business. But can you give me an example like how you would do that? So, like, website like, start seeing Hey, Joanne. It's been so great since we worked at ABC and Company. I haven't seen you so long. What are you up to? What do you do now? So I I would go to, and I'll I'll just preface this. I would go to my origin story. So I would take you to that moment. I would go to the moment of being in the office with at my previous job. So I would say, hey, Betsy. So, remember, yes, we haven't seen each other for a long time.
So I don't think know if you remember this, but one of the on the last afternoon that you left our job and I was so sad and I was in the bathroom and I was crying that you were leaving, I was in I was in tears, and I just felt this overwhelming sense of I just didn't know what was gonna happen next. And I wanted to experience what I knew you were off to and about experiencing. So I came out of the bathroom and Jen and Joe were sitting around the table as well. I think they were eating, you know, they always having their afternoon snack, you know, and in coffee. And I sat down and they were like, you know, Jen was like, what's the matter of joy? You're like, you seem a little distraught and they said, that's he's gone. And this is gonna be a completely different experience for us for now. But I wanna have what she has. I wanna figure out how I can be paid to be myself. And they looked at each other, and they're like, oh, there she goes again, you know, doing her usual thing. And then they got up and they left.
When I sat down and I started writing notes in my book, and I spent months and months after that thinking through that moment thinking through what that would look like and me from me. And many years later, I got my coaching certification and I started this work in this job that I've been in now. And now I work with clients who I love working with and who just do who love to do the storytelling work with me, and it's been absolutely great and amazing. And I would love to share more about it with you as well going forward. So that's how I would do that as seen. So I would right?
So do all of the parks, I would bring you to a moment you know, and I, you know, I just kinda made that up, you know, try to give you some imagery of me being in the bathroom crying. That didn't happen. But, you know, you know, and then Joe and Jen, you know, so and then they're in the they're at the table, they're having coffee, you know, just trying to flush out the scene a little bit so that you guys can because I'm trying to bring you into the moment. And I'm trying to bring you into the words that are being said and bring you into the thoughts that are being thought in that moment in that time. But then I quickly, you know, moved on and said, you know, then I went and this was the answer and I moved on. But so I but I didn't make everything bad. But I found a particular moment to try to bring to life.
So you don't have to have many moments but you have to have at least one and it doesn't have to be a long moment either, but at least one moment for a particular period of time, and then you can build on that and sort of like, you know, cascade on from there. But we definitely need those moments to be. That's what captures us. That's what captivate. That's what transports us. And that's how you build in for it. So it's not like, oh, okay.
Like, so if I were gonna get to my story, it's like, oh, well, my died and it was, like, sort of a wake up call. And then I decided to leave Disney. Like, that's not the story because I'm just giving the facts. It would be, like, there was a moment, you know, like, I'll never forget the moment when, you know and and I might go in I can't even do it off the top of my head. Like, never forget the moment when I decided to leave Disney. You know, I was at x y z Place and this is the moment and then this came up and then Joe and Sally were around me and they're like, why are you crazy? That makes no sense.
Or you could do the moment of hearing it because you mentioned your dad dying. You could do the moment of getting a phone call or where you were or being in or a hospital seat or a conversation. And what that meant and what that impacted to you. Because we wanna see emotional sort of transformation a little bit, like like the the moments that kick things off. Possibly is is an option. So you could do from there and then say, this was the thing that shifted things from me. And then I went on to do this and that, you know, all these things happen. There.
But it's like bringing us to to whatever moment you reference, bring us to a scene. So even the scene even if the dead leaving Disney moment, you know, were you at your desk? Were, you know, or or was there a conversation that happened a week before? Or something that that took you off that you were like, then, you know, maybe, you know, maybe it's something that's innocuous, you know, like, you know, I was walking through the park, you know, and Mickey, you know, walked up to me. Someone dressed up as Mickey up to me, you know, and, like, threw a peanut at my head. And I was like, that's it. I'm done with this plate. I'm just making it up. But, you know, well, we have a a moment or a scene. We need to just see something. So it's like, I'm probably like a lot of what the people are listening.
It's like, I don't know which scene to pick out because I could tell you, like, in my example, you know, the moment that I just, you know, that that started the process that got me to leave Disney, which happened probably over a year later, is when I got back from the funeral, and I had this conviction, like, you know, because when my dad died, I was like, this isn't. There's no more you know, one life. And it's like, I'm going to land and happy healthy and free. You know, like, that was, like, my conviction. But it's like, it didn't get to a fruition later. So I could talk about, like, the moment he died or I could talk about that, I could talk about that final straw moment, which is a very different moment.
But it's like, how do you pick the right one? Or does it matter? It's just like pick one and go with it. Yes. Pick one and go with it. That's the thing. There is no right moment. Because those are all your stories. And you can eventually flush out and build all of those stories. Right? So that's why I think it's important for people to build a story bank. Like, just have, like, the practice of bringing yourself into a moment, the practice of of using, you know, so and I think I think Carol and Carol has the great framework, the ideal framework of of how to tell a story, you know, making sure there's imagery, making sure there's dialogue and motion action. And then getting to the lesson, just you can do that with multiple all the different moments that you want to in your life. Again, don't get stuck on there is of the one or what is the most transformational moment I've had in my entire life? No. It's not even that. So for example, here's something that I use. Often with with with clients when we're getting started working on storytelling. I share the story.
So when I was three, My mom dropped me off at preschool at the preschool Maryweather on the first day. And she dropped me off and, you know, I was spurred off and started playing with the other kids. She left for a couple of hours and she came back. So when she came back, she met the woman at the front and she said hi, I'm here to pick up my daughter, Joy. The woman looks at her clipboard and she's like, there is no child here by the name of Joy. My mom, I'm starting, like, what do you mean? I just dropped my daughter here earlier today. She's like, there's no kid here by the name of Joy. So my mom's scanning the room, starting to panic, and she steve me in the corner playing with some other kids. And she's like, well, man, what are you talking about? There she is right there. That's my daughter Joy.
And woman looks over. And then she laughed and she's like, oh, that's done to knit. And my mom's like, what? She's like, that's done to knit. So my mom comes over to me. She's like, like, what in the world, what's going on? So they the adults are trying to figure out what's happening. And after a while of unearthing, what's going on, they figure out, oh, I had gone and told everybody that my name was done tonight, my name was enjoyed, all the kids, all the teachers, and why would I do something like that? Because my dad's name is Dennison, and I'm a daddy's girl. And I absolutely adored him, still adored him to today and wanted to have a name that was as close as possible to my dad. So it's now a running family joke. You know, other family members, some people, when they wanna tease me, they'll call me Dunston at, but that's like a store. It's like family law right now. Like, young joy changing her name when she had the opportunity.
So I used that story and it's not that deep. It's a funny story. It's not, you know, not sharing my deepest darkest secrets. It's probably not even the most significant moment in my life, but I could easily tack on to the end of that many possible lessons. So I could go with the importance of names, the importance of the names that we use, and what does that mean to us, and that with and our sense of unidentity, I could build a whole talk on it.
Or what would you what would you pull out from that story? Right? Or you could ask the audience, like, well, what do you what do you guys get from the story and what do you learn from it? That's that's story banking, just going through these different moments, practicing share sharing and telling the story, and then realizing that there are endless possibilities of lessons that you potentially could pull from it. So it doesn't have to be these deep significant moments or traumatic moments, but just moments. So it sounds like from what you're saying then is storytelling establishes your credibility because it really taps into from a neuroscience standpoint, a connection that maybe not may not be conscious and that it's more powerful than just sharing your credentials or your ideas.
The second is it sounds like story isn't necessarily about, like, oh, let me just tell you all my facts about all the horrible things that happened to me. It's about picking specific moments in time that can be universalized into other kind of principles and different kind of things. So it's like picking out the relevant story. And then the third is there's no right story. Just get an arsenal stories and just start working on creating the narrative around like that particular moment. So it's not about revealing everything. It's like that particular moment, and then you could be more flexible. Yes. Exactly. There there's so many different options. So okay.
So let's talk about you and your storytelling coaching. How do people get a hold of you? And how do they how do they find you? And what kind of services do you offer? So they can reach me through my website reframe to create dot com or email by emailing me joy at reframe to create dot com. And I offer one on one storytelling coaching, but I also offer storytelling workshops for groups. Though this is, you know, groups who want to Maybe they have a cohort of people who they wanna help them build and strengthen their storytelling skills. There are a lot of different frameworks that I can take that I take group through to use storytelling for whether it's for move movement movement building, which is sort of more I would use more our work around narrative building.
I would sort of and and this is the thing. There's a distinction between story and narrative, which I learned from, you know, Viator, who has this organization, Metahome, and does work around strategic narrative, which I love, which is sort of let the stories have a beginning middle and an end. They're set on particular moment, but that narrative has a beginning, a middle, but no end. And that's what invites people to participation. So you when you're when you're building movements or you're sort of inviting people to participate and make sort of social change. You really want to build and craft strong narratives. But stories have a role to play in supporting and sort of aligning and being parts of those those narratives. So for organizations, I would probably do work around if they're if they're social justice minded or mission minded organization helping them craft in their narrative and also the stories that they would need in support of that.
And with individuals helping individuals on earth and craft their story for connection and influence especially leaders or or however folks want to use it if they have talks that they wanna go to or develop another way. So those are my two audiences, groups and individuals. It seems like though in the whole though, it's for people who are transformation agents, people who wanna make a difference in the world and leveraging the power storytelling to make a bigger difference in the world. Whether it's working with individuals or social movements, it's it's both. And you're the person who can help people ignite change in the world because they are able to connect with their own story. Connect with their own mission. Connect in with their own reframing of their own stories. So that they can go out and make a bigger difference in the world. Yes. And the difference they're gonna be making is through the things that they create. Yes. Oh, my gosh. So powerful.
So is there anything else that you'd wanna tell me about storytelling or about living like a purpose driven life having a purpose driven business or career? And I'm just not asking you the right question. Well, I really want the audience to to understand that they're already doing this, and they already are this. This is not something that's so different and foreign to them. But It happens to me as well when someone says, tell me a story. There's something in my brain that seizes up and I'm a storytelling coach.
So if if that happens to me, I understand that it happens to everyone and there's just something about that that just gets us we get we sort of, like, get we sort of fall off the bike. You know, but it but we were already riding the bike. It's like you're riding the bike and someone says, you know, how do you ride a bike? And then you're like, and then you fall off. Yeah. For some strange reason, but you were you were literally just riding the bike five minutes ago, and I see this happen all the time with my clients. Like, I'll ask them, like, okay, let's talk. Let's do the story. And once they and then they get stuck, but once they hit a particular group and they stop thinking about telling a story, they naturally just fettle into a storytelling mode. And then I go back and see see how you did that. You did dialogue. You did character. You did all these things.
So you already know this, you already know how to tell stories, you already are telling stories, you already know how to create, you're already creating. It's just about working with someone who's gonna help you build your bank of creating, you know, creating things things that you create and also your stories. Help you be more intentional and powerful and impactful with what it is. You're already with, if nothing new, just gonna help you be more of who you are. Love that. Well, that's I can't add anything more to that. Thank you so much, Joy. You're just you are a joy. It's just this has been really powerful. I've learned so much So thank you.
Thank you so much for being on the show. And thank you so much for having me. These have been great questions and I've enjoyed being here and chatting with you and getting to know your audience. Thank you so much. Talk soon. Alright. Take care.
So that's a wrap for today's session and my mini storytelling series. I hope this series inspired you to see that who you are is the most important part of your consulting or coaching brand. You don't have to be perfect. You just have to be real and be you and all you do. If you enjoyed this series, please consider hitting the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you have a few minutes, I'd love it if you can leave me a review. Your feedback helps me to continue improving and bringing you valuable content. And until next time. Thanks for listening. Thank you for tuning in. If today's episode lit a fire in you, please rate and review Enough Already on Apple Podcasts or subscribe wherever you listen. And if you're looking for your next step, visit me on my website at Betsy Jordyn dot com, and it's Betsy Jordyn with a y. And you'll learn all about our end to end services that are custom designed to accelerate your success. Don't wait, start today.