Why People-Centered Consultants Keep Hitting a Wall: Classical vs. Progressive Management

Have you ever wondered why leaders say, “Yes, I want to be more collaborative. I want to create more of a people-centered culture,” and then turn around and manage with command and control?

They’re not necessarily lying.

But there’s a reason this happens. And if you are a consultant, coach, HR leader, OD practitioner, or Lean professional trying to influence more human-centered leadership, you need to understand what you are really up against.

In this interview, I sat down with Bob Emiliani, educator and author of 28 books, to unpack the difference between classical management and progressive management and why this tension keeps showing up inside organizations.

This conversation goes deeper than leadership behaviors. It goes to beliefs. And even deeper than that... to preconceptions.

What Is Classical vs. Progressive Management?

Bob’s research question was simple but profound:

Why, after more than 100 years of research in leadership, organizational behavior, and management, are most companies still leading in fundamentally old ways?

As he explained, when he says progressive management, he is not talking about politics. He is talking about doing something different and better than the old way of leading.

The old way, which he calls classical management, has roots that go back thousands of years. He put it this way:

“The simplest example is when there's a problem, people get blamed for a problem just like the Pharaoh blamed the engineer and the builder for a lousy pyramid.”

That pattern has not disappeared. It has evolved, but it still exists.

Bob describes the difference between the two approaches as a spectrum:

• Classical management = the old way of doing things

• Progressive management = human-centered leadership

But the real difference is not just in behaviors.

It is in preconceptions.

The Real Difference: Competing Preconceptions

When I asked whether this was similar to Theory X vs. Theory Y, Bob said that was “part of it,” but also a major oversimplification.

Underneath leadership behaviors is:

“a whole network of interconnected preconceptions in the categories of economic, social, political, historical, technological, aesthetic, legal, business, spiritual, and so on that keeps the ball rolling forward for classical management.”

That is what makes change so difficult.

Classical Management Preconceptions

According to Bob, classical management operates from preconceptions such as:

• People have limitations.

• Creativity is limited to certain domains.

• You should support and defend the status quo.

• Respect traditions.

• Avoid abstract schemes.

• Things cannot be perfected.

• “Whatever is, is right.”

That last one is foundational.

If whatever currently exists is assumed to be right because it has evolved over time, then change is inherently suspect.

Progressive Management Preconceptions

In contrast, progressive management operates from different assumptions:

• Humans do not have fixed limitations.

• People can be creative at work.

• Scientific thinking can improve systems.

• Abstract concepts can yield real results.

• Things can be improved.

• “Whatever is, is wrong.”

That does not mean everything is entirely broken. But it assumes there is always room for improvement.

That is a very different starting point.

Why Leaders Resist People-Centered Leadership

If you are trying to help leaders adopt more empowering, servant-oriented leadership practices, this is where it gets uncomfortable.

I asked Bob to bottom-line why efforts to shift leaders toward more people-centered leadership so often fail.

His answer was direct:

“It infringes the pod leader's privileges, and protection.”

Throughout our conversation, Bob emphasized that leaders are focused on obtaining, maintaining, and expanding their status, privileges, and protections.

This includes internal control, but also external leverage.

When I suggested that control might be the issue, he corrected me:

“Yes, but I think leverage is a more descriptive and meaningful understanding of what they're looking for, looking to get and maintain, to get, maintain and expand.”

And he clarified something important:

“Control is far too narrow a focus to understand what you're up against.”

Leaders seek leverage not just over employees, but also over suppliers, customers, investors, and communities.

That changes the way we think about resistance.

Why Executive Leaders Are Often the Least Interested

One of the most sobering parts of our conversation was this:

Bob noted that interest in progressive management is strongest at the hourly, supervisor, salaried, and manager levels... and then drops off dramatically at the general manager, vice president, CEO, and board level.

The people most able to deliver progressive management are often the least interested in doing so.

Why?

Because their job is explicitly to satisfy business interests. And in many systems, business interests are narrowly defined.

As Bob explained, around the 1970s, the preconception took hold that companies exist to maximize shareholder profits. He said:

“That is a artificial, it's nowhere in law. That is a choice.”

But it became widely accepted.

And once a preconception becomes embedded in the system, it shapes behavior even if no one consciously revisits it.

The Two Problems We Keep Confusing

One of the most powerful distinctions Bob made was this:

There are two problems.

1. What is the lay of the land? Why do we have this problem?

2. What do we do about it?

He argued that much of the Lean, OD, and leadership development world has been trying to solve problem two without fully understanding problem one.

That is why we experience:

• Some wins

• Some strong case studies

• Some positive change

But also repeated ceilings.

He said:

“We have to really understand what we're up against.”

Without that, we are solving the wrong problem.

Why Human-Centered Leadership Is Hard

Bob also pointed out something many of us avoid saying out loud:

There are many ways to improve business numbers.

He said:

“There's 50 ways to do it. Human centered leadership is one of 50 and it's probably the hardest one of 50.”

If leaders can hit quarterly numbers through cost cutting, restructuring, mergers, or compensation shifts, why would they choose the hardest path?

This is not about leaders being evil.

It is about incentive structures and embedded preconceptions.

So What Do We Do?

When I pressed for a clear countermeasure, Bob was honest:

“That's a good question. I don't know. Maybe we can get together and figure that out.”

That is not a cop-out.

It is an invitation.

He said:

“We're dealing with a problem that affects us all, and we have to bring our heads together to understand the problem so we can identify other pathways to try.”

This is where my Common Good Consulting & Coaching Consortium idea comes in.

If the challenge is systemic, no single OD consultant, HR professional, executive coach, or Lean practitioner can shift it alone.

We need cross-disciplinary collaboration.

We need shared understanding of:

• Preconceptions

• Leverage

• Incentive structures

• System-level dynamics

Only then can we address problem two in a meaningful way.

There Is a Better Way

I ended our conversation by saying this:

There is a better way.

It does not have to be this way.

It is this way because of historical preconceptions and systems that have gone unchallenged.

Bob agreed that under current widely accepted preconceptions, leaders do not have to care about human-centered leadership.

But what we seek to change is the preconception itself.

And that starts with understanding.

Books to Go Deeper

If you want to better understand the lay of the land, Bob recommends:

• The Triumph of Classical Management Over Lean Management

• A Change in Perspective

• The Aesthetic Compass

You can find his work at BobEmiliani.com.

My Takeaway

We worry too much about our influence skills and beat ourselves up when change fails. But when everything is operating the way it's designed—classical management, shareholder capitalism—making the shift toward what we know in our hearts is better is bigger than any one of us can change alone.

We need to partner together.

That's why I'm launching the Common Good Consulting & Coaching Consortium—and Bob has agreed to be an advisor. Sign up here to get on the interest list for our founding call: https://www.betsyjordyn.com/common-good 

Next Steps

1. Explore Bob Emiliani’s books: The Triumph of Classical Management, A Change in Perspective, The Aesthetic Compass at BobEmiliani.com

2. If this episode surfaced frustration you’ve felt for years… If you’ve hit the “why won’t they change?” wall… If you believe people-centered leadership matters but feel like the system is bigger than your discipline… Join the interest list for the Common Good Consulting & Coaching Consortium.

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• The Brand Messaging Process Consultants Need for Clarity and Confidence

About the guest: Bob Emiliani is a Professor Emeritus, leadership researcher, and founder of Cubic, LLC, a company dedicated to leadership development and management improvement. With more than 25 years of experience advancing leadership practices across industries, Bob is known for translating complex organizational challenges into practical, actionable strategies. Drawing from hands-on experience in engineering, manufacturing, and supply chain management, along with 23 years as an educator, Bob brings both academic depth and real-world insight to his work. Through his books, online courses, and on-demand videos, he equips professionals with clear frameworks and methods designed to strengthen leadership capability and improve organizational performance. He is especially recognized for his work on “Speed Leadership,” a concept focused on accelerating learning, decision-making, and meaningful organizational change.

About me: Betsy Jordyn is a brand messaging strategist and business mentor for purpose-driven consultants and coaches. With a background in organizational development—including a consulting career with Disney—she helps experts clarify their unique value, position themselves strategically, and build businesses that deliver impact, income, and personal fulfillment. Connect with Betsy Jordyn to clarify your message, elevate your brand, and attract the clients you're meant to serve. Start here → betsyjordyn.com/services