00:01 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Unsure about your niche, what it is or if you should switch it. Well, find out on today's Consulting Matters podcast. And welcome to the Consulting Matters podcast. This is the show for purpose-driven consultants and coaches who are ready to own the power of what they do and position themselves for greater impact and income. I'm your host, Betsy Jordyn, and I am an ex-Disney consultant and successful consulting business owner, turned both business mentor and brand messaging and positioning strategist. So you can find out about all the things I do to help my clients get rock solid clarity and confidence in what they do so that they can build a thriving business that they absolutely love, on my website at wwwbetsyjordyncom. And do not forget Jordyn is with a Y, so let's talk about what we're getting into today.
00:58
Today, we're going to be talking about if switching your niche is the right move for you. So this is important, whether you're just getting started and you're just struggling with landing the plane around like okay, is this really how I wanna focus my consulting or coaching business, or you've been at it for a while and you have clients and you're wondering like I'm not sure if they're the ones that I want and I'm not sure who the right one is. So before we get into all of this, like, let's get on the same page around what a niche actually is, Because I think that the word niche is one of those big words that gets thrown around a lot and it's very, very misunderstood. So let me get clear on one thing your niche isn't about looking through your strengths or your areas of expertise and having to choose from among them like a soapy's choice kind of choice where you have to decide like, oh, this is my strength, I really like that. This other one has to be left off in the cold, Like that's not going to work, because the right business for you is the one that leverages all of you. So what your niche actually is is it's an easier to digest word for really brand positioning, and brand positioning is the unique space that you own in the market and in the minds of your ideal clients. So what it does is it defines who you help and the problem that you solve and then connects the dots between that person and their problems and you and the unique value of your consulting or coaching, and so really landing the plane on this is incredibly important, as it's the foundation of what you need, not just to grow a business that you love and really set it up for that focus and sustainable success. But it's also what you need to stand out in the market that seems like it's getting more and more crowded every single day.
02:35
So to help us out with this, I'm so excited to bring on the show Brad Johnson. So he is a client that we've been working with for a while and he's gonna help you answer really the pressing question around your niche, around whether you should keep doing what you've always been doing and or stay on the path that you've been thinking about or move on to something totally different. So that is what we've been working on. So Brad has a very interesting background.
03:02
I can't wait for you to hear all about it. He's a high performance coach in every aspect of the word, and he was in that very spot. You know where he wanted to shift his focus, but he wasn't quite sure what it what it was. So we had a really interesting time like really combing through his strengths and his education and his story and we really landed the plank pretty quickly in his expertise. But where to focus it? That was solely different. So I know you probably can relate to that whole issue and the back and forth, like should I go this direction and should I go that direction? How do I just get clarity? So that's what Brad's going to help us out with, and so, without further ado, welcome to the show, Brad.
03:40 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
It is wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.
03:43 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Especially because we've gone through a lot of different work on your brand messaging and positioning and there was some other things that got in the way and it's so wonderful to finally be at this place where it's like, oh my gosh, we have a story to tell. But before we get into this, I would love for you to establish, for our listeners around, just your background. You have a very interesting background, like. So, before we get into what it was like for you to switch your niche and try to figure out your brand positioning and all of that, like, how did you go from like all the education you had in, like the neurosciency kind of stuff, to like technical sales management, to then starting your own product-based business, to performance coaching, like, can you just like, give us a little bit of a backdrop of that?
04:23 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Sure. So, yes, I studied biochemistry. I was actually in a pre-med program in undergrad, determined that I didn't want to be a doctor and took a job in a laboratory after school Actually, full disclosure. I took a break after school and I bartended for six months and then realized, okay, maybe I better do something with this scientific degree that I have. Not that bartending isn't sort of science, right?
04:49 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
That's true.
04:51 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
So, yeah, I took a job in a laboratory because I didn't really know what I wanted to do and I realized after about six months that that wasn't for me and the biotech I was working for had just launched a product that was literally going global, and so the ceiling just kind of got blown off of this small, privately owned biotech and there was a ton of opportunity. So I quickly relocated from the Boston area to San Diego, designed a remote office for myself out there in the days of that being relatively unheard of and I started getting involved more in international distribution management and supporting growth, particularly in the Asian markets. So I got to travel all over Asia, places that tourists don't go to and places that tourists go to. I don't know how many states I've been to all 50 states, but not all for work, but a lot of domestic, a lot of speaking engagements, mainly still in tech support and then slowly started to transition from tech support into sales, became the Southeast Regional Sales Manager and relocated to the southeast from California and everything was great.
06:08
And then my wife and I got this crazy idea that we would move to Quebec, where she was born, and start a company. I won't tell the whole story. But basically her father was from Finland and there was this fruit that was growing in Canada that was originally from Finland and he was really passionate about it. So we said, well, what do we get the guy who has everything Like we'll do, like a business plan for him on this fruit that he loves so much? And so I did the science processing side and my wife is in marketing and so she did the marketing and we brought the two together and we each read each other's proposal or not proposal, but part and we were like this actually sounds like a good idea. So next thing, you know, the guy who moved to San Diego, who swore he would never live anywhere where there was winter ever again, is on his way to Quebec to start a business.
06:57
I didn't speak French, it was an adventure that I was not fully prepared for at 30 years old, but you know, our business model initially was to take agricultural byproducts and use a technology called super critical fluid extraction to turn them into oils and then also create powders and other things that could be used as ingredients in foods and pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals. But we were just a little bit ahead. Of that kind of natural, organic people will pay a premium kind of curve. So we said, okay, well, what do we do now? So we used our own ingredients and became a natural skincare company. We won a couple of awards, we had a clinical trial done that proved the efficacy of our five core products and next thing, you know, we're talking to a national distributor. And yeah, it was quite an adventure moving from our little farm facility that we built to a 5,000 square foot manufacturing facility and it was pretty cool. So that's kind of-. So how'd you?
08:09 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
get into coaching then. So people ask me that question or was it coaching and consulting? Was it a little bit of both, like helping companies? How'd you get into that business? How'd you go from having your business to getting into that?
08:25 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Both by design and just by accident. Honestly, you know, people ask me that all the time like when did you start coaching? And if you look at kind of the coaching approach to communication, like that's how I was selling, I was asking questions, I was building rapport, asking questions, you know, finding, and ultimately it was like what can we do together that will benefit you? And that was my approach. So I kind of have this thing like I've never actually sold anything. It's just been about solutions, solutions, and so I think I've kind of had that coaching approach throughout. And then in Quebec we did some mentoring for some other entrepreneurs up there, got involved in a few different organizations, and when we moved back to the States I was like what am I going to do? I said, well, I'll start a coaching business.
09:21
And I was also really passionate about endurance sports. I had started doing triathlons and Ironmans after late stage cancer in my twenties and it um, those two things just kind of came together and so I launched a, an endurance coaching business, or what was supposed to be an endurance coaching business, which very quickly became about 15% endurance coaching and about 85% coaching, other coaching. I don't know if it quite qualifies as life coaching. But it's like, okay, I seem to be attracting these executives who have really no business trying to do an endurance event because they already work how many hours, I have no idea. They have families at home, they have philanthropic endeavors like all these other things. So it's like, okay, well, how are you going to train for this event and not lose performance in those other areas of your life?
10:14
And along the way, the consulting was more really by word of mouth, like hey, we heard you did this thing up in Quebec. We're starting this company. You know, when CBD came down, I got involved in a CBD startup. Like we have no idea how to actually make products out of this stuff. It's like, okay, well, that's something I know. So, yeah, that's kind of an overview.
10:40 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
It's interesting, it's like I'm hearing it again.
10:43
Like you know, we talked about this in your, you know, the initial listen to your life exercises and I've heard some of this, but it's it's just hearing you go through a little bit of again.
10:51
It's like there's always been this theme in your life. You know where it has something to do with the intersection, you know, between, like, the science and business and you know the physicality, like that's always been like this theme, even in everything that you were doing, even like when you how you framed up like bartending, because like a bartending out of you know, like out of a lot of professions, like there's a lot of chemistry that goes into that. So I think that was interesting, that you even made that connection. So tell me about like okay, so bring me to bring me to the moment that made you decide like I need to get help. Like you booked a call with me. But what was going on in your business that made you think like I need to do something different than what I'm doing right now, and I'm not quite sure what it is, but it's time for me to make a change.
11:38 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
So for years, my wife had been telling me you're getting paid as an endurance coach, but you're working as a performance coach or an executive coach, and I'll just mention that the payment structure between those two things is fairly significant the difference, I should say. So she had been encouraging me for years to do that, to make the switch, do that, to make the switch, and you know it really came through a job I had. I was consulting for a company that was creating a coaching platform, and so we started to build out a product offering like what do coaches need? And so this, what you do, is a huge thing that coaches need, and so I was originally searching for people to pair with that platform.
12:35
And I won't just say something. It's very intentional. I know that I read your website and I was like this is what I need as a coach. That contract was coming to an end and I wanted to really focus on building a new coaching brand and a new coaching identity. I've been coaching for a long time, but most folks that know of it associated it primarily with the endurance side of things.
13:07 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So you've been. You have like a. It seems like you're somebody who's a reinventer. Like what was it that made you feel like I can't do this reinvention? Like you have a wife who is a marketing person and you know and there was clarity at least on like I want to do something with executives. Like so what was it that was making you feel like I could? I really need help through this process rather than try to figure it out on my own?
13:29 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
The first thing that pops into my head with that question is I have a really hard time narrowing things down Right. It's like I could do this with anyone, like everybody needs this, and so you know there's a bit of just. You know, at 49 years old, having hopefully learned a few things about myself and you mentioned my wife in there yeah, my wife is in marketing and we've worked on businesses in the past and at this stage we know that we want to be married first and business.
14:08
She still helps with a lot of things, but just having a clear separation between the things we do in business and our marriage, and that definitely played a factor as well. But really, what I've always struggled with is really narrowing it down to like who is it that I am meant to work with? And it's not even want to work with Meant and want go together? For me, at least it's who is it that I'm meant to work with and what am I specifically doing for those people?
15:03 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I'm an executive coach, you know, and you could just kind of go on that. But it's like I think there is a different nuance of like it's not all the executives, there's somebody who is meant for me and I want to figure out who that person is. I do. I think it's different because some people might want something because it seems like it's more profitable, like there's a lot of people who say I want to go work in organizations versus like having a private coaching practice, like working with individuals, and it's like well, but do you want to? Because you, just you know your, your world rises and sets on, you know seeing organizations be effective, you know, or is it that you feel like you perceive it might be easier to land work or more profitable, like that's a want? What you're talking about is deeper. You're talking about like I'm 49 years old and like it seems like there's like purpose that's driving you, not just what seems profitable.
15:52 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Definitely, definitely, and I've done enough coaching under whatever umbrella. You know I, I, I had clients that I was working with as as an endurance, as as an endurance coach, and I had clients who were a hybrid, and then I had clients who were solely executive or performance coaching and you know so I had this pool to look at over the course of 10 plus years and say, like, when has it really produced like something powerful? When has it really been meaningful to them and to me? I think, for purpose, purpose in serving others is who are those that I'm meant to serve? And I think it's having.
16:42
I know a lot of coaching coaches, excuse me, and you know I think it's something that coaches in particular really struggle with. Right, because it is a competitive marketplace and it's hard to, it's hard to think about. I think a lot of coaches and I was guilty of this as well don't like the idea of like well, excluding potential clients. Like, oh, am I, by doing like well, excluding potential clients? Like, oh, by doing this, am I excluding potential clients? And so, once I made that mindset shift, I'm like no, it's not excluding others, it's about really focusing on creating the most powerful outcomes for those that that match with the way I operate and and that that was. That was just that changed, changed my perspective.
17:34 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I think that that's a really important part, because I think there's a lot of things that you could do. So there's like a difference. Like, yeah, and we're going to figure out how to package up like. You know, one of the next order of forbids for us to work on is like now you've gotten your brain clarity which we're going to explain in a second for those who are listening but we are going to talk about how do we package it up into offers? Like, so that's going to be something different, but when we think about your offers, we're not going to leave any of your strengths out. And I think that that's what the idea is.
17:58
Sometimes, when people think about a niche is like oh, I should just like choose out of these things that I'm great at and and that just focus on that. Like, oh, I'm good at coaching, so I can't do anything else. Like, or I just do retreats, or I just do assessments, or I just do strategy or org design or whatever that is, you know, rather than like, when you choose the person, you could bring all of that stuff to the table. But it is a mindset shift and it's a pretty significant one. How did you get your mind to say that there's more opportunities for me if I narrow down versus if I stay broad.
18:33 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
I think for me it was just again. It was looking back over who I've worked with. Not that it's easy, but there's an energy when things are aligned between a coach and a client, right, and so it's like not that it's easy, but you know there's an energy when things are aligned between a coach and a client, right, and so it's like when has that been most powerful and palpable and when has it not Right? And so I've been guilty, certainly of you know I can't say no to a client, and then you know that client just wasn't meant to work with me and it, you know, turns into a struggle and then they suck the energy out of you instead of creating this kind of abundance of energy that fuels both parties. Um so, um, so uh, you know, and I I had a sense of who, who those folks were, but I could not put it into words and it's frustrating.
19:31
And some of that frustration came out in front of some of our conversations, because I was like it's there, but like I can't, we're not getting it. And then, once we got it and it clicked, and then it was just like, oh, this is, this is changing, and you said something earlier about you know people right say, oh well, you know. Or you mentioned, like including all of my strengths, not saying like, oh, just bringing particular strengths in. And that was an experience that I had through working together, us working together. It's like okay, no, once you figure out what the niche is, that's the narrowing. Then it's like those are the people you can bring your whole self to, your whole self to. And I just get goosebumps, even saying that you know, because it's like okay, I don't have to compromise, right, we think it's a compromise to like this is the specific person, so to speak, or a group or whatever. It is like somehow compromising by not including other people, but no, that's not a compromise, because that allows you to be your whole self.
20:36 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
And it's interesting because I do this all day long, every day, you know, and I still struggle sometimes where it's like I think I could do something else. That's a little bit off, you know, and anytime I've tried to do that, like when I was in Denver. I moved to Denver a couple of years ago and I rented an office with a bunch of therapists and I'm like, oh well, maybe I'll just like offer my branding to the therapist, because there's a whole bunch of them, like they all would need it. And when I started talking to them, like I have to like totally adapt all of my processes specifically to them and they don't have anything to do with the consultants and coaches that I work with. Like it's a very different person who's a mid-career person versus these therapists, and it's like this is taking me way too much time and it's not as profitable or interesting. But then, if I could stay on track with consultants and coaches like you're in my impact and income accelerator group, like that's a new offering that I was able to add and I love that. You know, like I don't want to do everything, like I love the one on one work, but there was like there's a power in the group, but I was able to create something different because I have everybody has stuff in common, so it opens up the you know, and I have tons of other ideas that I want to do, you know, with groups. But if I everybody was different, I couldn't do it.
21:45
And I think that, um, I think there is something about like the alignment, the flow, like common problems, and then you can create community around other people who have common problems, you know, and and there is something that's like really exciting about that.
22:00
But you did mention the process. So let's get into like our work together, because I will say, I warn people when we get started and I don't know if I explicitly warned you is like there's going to be a part of the process where it's going to feel like a little bit of like a wrestling match and I'm going to have to wrestle the clarity out of you and you're going to hate me for a little bit, but we're going to work on it on the other end I don't know if I warned you about it, but that is seems to be, seems to be part of the process, kind of like a personal, maybe in your coaching, when you're helping people with endurance, like, do you wind up in that point where somebody says they want to do something and you kind of have to, like, push them a little bit to get to that outcome? Is there a comparison to your endurance coaching is what I'm kind of wondering.
22:42 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, I think that there's a comparison to a lot of things that I've done with that and, yes, you were very upfront and about you know, I'll say like it's going to be a struggle right at times and, honestly, that's one of the reasons why I chose to work with you. Is it because I warned you. Because I warned you up front.
23:07 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I didn't pretend it was going to be like unicorns and rainbows.
23:11 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
The latter. I didn't experience it as a warning, I experienced it as honesty, and so for me it's like that's a big like. Do I think this person's being completely open and honest with me, or are they trying to sell me something?
23:28 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Right.
23:29 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
And then I'm going to find out. It's different on the other side, Right?
23:33 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So so yeah, I've had some clients who are like oh you, you land work with empathy and why are you not being empathetic with me right now? Like I am being empathetic, but in a different way, Like I know that real you is inside of you and I'm just like I, I'm going to keep digging at it until we find it and it's like there, it is Like and and our work together.
23:52
it was really easy to define your expertise and, even though you have all of these different experiences, like we hit a label pretty quickly. I think, it was something about like human performance or high performance. Could you like remind me of the label of your expertise?
24:06 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
So the original label was, you know, human performance coach.
24:11 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
But your expertise was human performance. Like we landed that quickly. But with your ideal client it was a challenge. Like we tried on many, many different things. Like like, what was it about the ideal client in particular? Like outside of, like the niching down and all the fears and all of that stuff. Like why was it? You know, even though you had the mindset going in, you knew you wanted it. You know, even though you had the mindset going in, you knew you wanted it. What was it about figuring this out? That was just so difficult. You know, like and and how did and what was the breakthrough? Like we had there was a breakthrough moment. Like everything changed for you. Like your countenance changed on our sessions. Like like we could giddy up and go. Like it was totally different. Like what was it? What was challenging about it and what gave you the breakthrough?
24:54 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
So what was challenging about it was that for me, the ideal client doesn't exist in one industry or one subset of industries and that's you know.
25:08
I kept thinking, ok, I've got to. Is it? Is it doctors? Well, it's not really doctors, is it? You know, this health wellness profession? Well, it's not really doctors, is it this health wellness profession? Well, not really. But the breakthrough came when we came up with and I don't think we came up with it, it was kind of like it just revealed itself to us, so to speak, that really what we're looking at is science-driven entrepreneurs, yeah, and that can transcend not every industry. So it was still a focusing as far as like where these folks work. But it was that realism. That's the connection with the individual for me.
25:49 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Mm-hmm.
25:50 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Right, and that actually covered all the industries that we had been trying to figure out. You know which one of these is it and it's like well, no, it's, it's.
26:01 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
it's those and not others, but then it's this individual within those industries that it's like it was almost, like it was right there in front of us, yeah, and it's so congruent with your past, like it's almost like. Like a lot of times I would. I feel like when people are wrestling with the ideal client, like nine times out of ten, if we can't find it, it's probably a younger version of you of some kind, like you spent your career in that, skating the line between science and business, and so it's like, ah, it was there, and then we saw that and everything changed, and then clarifying the problem that you solved became really clear as well.
26:40
Can you talk about that a little bit.
26:42 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
So, if I may be so bold, I think we're still refining this and I think this is going to really get further refined in our next phase of work, where we look at the offers and we really hone in on the language around the offers.
27:00
If I was going to sum up the problem that I solve concisely, I think I would add to the ICP that science-driven entrepreneurs, who maybe don't have the same business training as some other entrepreneurs, might have right. So they're science, they've started a business, the business has had a level of success and now it's at a point where it needs more right. And the problem that we're solving for really is that the owner themselves, who's been a high performer they've been a peak performer most of their lives, probably across multiple domains is now the bottleneck. So we need to take them from being a peak performer to a peak leader.
27:58 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Yeah.
27:58 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Right and I also use the term, I've tried it out a couple of times we're really taking you from an owner-operator to a strategic leader, Right.
28:09 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
That's good Love to remember that. Write that down for a future copy. You know, write that down. But I think that a lot of people who are listening, who are consultants and coaches, would say, yeah, that's me, you know. Like I work with tech leaders and they've gotten to their. They've gotten to a certain point in their career and they've skated on their technical competence but now they need, like these supposed soft skills. Like I hate. I hate how leadership is considered soft skills because I think they're the hard skills. Like you know, the vision setting and the leaders in the political savvy, like those are hard skills. But anyway, in the industry they're soft skills. But I think that that's what a lot of people think is like, oh, they've gotten here and like that's sort of like that, what got you here won't get you there. Like your technical skills built the business to this level but it's not going to get you all the way home.
28:51
Like you need a different skill set.
28:54 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Absolutely.
28:56 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So so what so like when you think about like your clients, so like, all right. So we have. The problem is they are a science-based, they're science, science, and we also added in that there are science leaders. They're analytical and competitive. Do we use the word competitive or? There was something else that related to the high performance. Did we say competitive?
29:16 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Yep.
29:17 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Or driven. I think we said competitive.
29:20 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
I believe so. Yeah, I don't have it right in front of me, okay.
29:23 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So there's scientific, analytical, competitive. So there are these founders of these companies and now they're needing to move into this leadership role. And now they're needing to move into this leadership role. Have you gotten to the clarity on like, okay, so if they had these skills, you know? So, if they stepped into that leadership role, what they want to create for their business? Is it simply scaling their business to the next level, you know? Or what was like? What's their ambitions for their business? On the other side?
30:02 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
on the other side. So my experience in doing this so far is that there's an ambitious goal for the business typically, but there's also an ambitious goal for them in their life and we're not necessarily coaching around the ambitious goal in their life. But the business needs to grow right. Perhaps it's even plateaued and it needs to refine its growth curve. So setting an ambitious growth goal is definitely part of what folks seem to want to do, but they also want to get their life back. Yeah, right, so those two things don't seem to necessarily align.
30:39
When you just look at it on sort of on a spreadsheet, it's like, well, how am I going to do this? And she's like I want to assistant coach my son's basketball rec league or whatever it might be, you know. So it really seems to be both of those things, and it's funny because we think of competition really more in the former, like, oh, I want to like the competition. The competitive nature comes out in the growth of the business, like wanting the business to be the best, but then there's also sort of a competitiveness on this other side of like okay, yeah, but I also want to be the best or better in other areas of my life, and so that's been really interesting. So I may be getting ahead of our conversation, but talk about ROI. For some folks it's just about time.
31:33 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
It's for some folks, it's just about time. Yeah, I think what you're speaking to is like we're the beauty of the ideal client. So one of the things that most people like spend all of their time worrying about is like, what do I do, how I'm different and like, unless you really get clarity in your ideal client, what they want you know like, then you can't figure out how you position yourself. And I think what you're speaking to is where, where your endurance, coaching and your high performance is, is that you could help optimize their performance, where they can achieve those, like you know, premier athletic level performance, like they could hit elite performance in their business because you've maximized their capacity to achieve that transition without like working harder, like that's part of like that's the gap that you can fill and that's where you're different is in harder, like that's part of like that's the gap that you can fill and that's where you're different is in comparison.
32:19
So let's say they went to another business coach who did not have that background, like they might say, all right, well, you know where are you today, you know what's your target, what's your, where's your current, what are the stubs? How are we going to grow your business? What's in your way? You know, let's do a gap analysis and root cause analysis and let's get the business going. Let's identify what your leadership competencies are. How do you want to get there? I think where you're going to come in. That's different is yeah, you could do all that regular stuff, but you could also look at how do I maximize your ability to perform at peak levels, really maximize your capacity for decision-making, maximize your capacity for strategic thinking. Maximize your capacity for decision-making, maximize your capacity for strategic thinking like maximize your capacity, so you could actually still achieve this and you could achieve all those other things you want in your life.
33:02 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Mm-hmm, yeah, and I think that's really important. It's an important differentiator, but I think it's also when we talk about the ICP or the ideal client. That's what they're looking for, as well as a difference in their coaching Like they want. It didn't come up in my kind of overview, but I also have a master's in human physiology and my concentration was in human performance, so human performance psychology. So it appeals to them that I have a coaching process that is founded in science. They're science driven and they want a program that has science intertwined into it, not just my methods.
33:51 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
And so that's, and that's only possible if I'm working with the ideal client who wants that like comparing your leader to like a, like a washing machine, you know, or like they got certain amount of energy in order to do that.
34:19
And then, like you teach them how to become like a high efficiency washing machine, where it's like you can, like you know, wash more clothes and last time and you know, but it's still the same amount of like, it's still the same basic activity. Like you can optimize the capacity. And I think that's where the competitive side like that's what athletes do is like they can, like you know they don't have. They know how to manage their energy in a different way you know, so you could help them from that standpoint. But then your approaches to how you help them grow as a leader is rooted in something that they can trust, because they don't trust. I imagine your clients don't just trust, like you know, whatever they're not going to be woo kind of people. Like you know what's your North Star, you know let's describe your intuition. You know let's unlock your authentic self to you know, like that's not the language that would speak to them.
35:02 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
No.
35:06 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So okay, so here's what's really fun. So we hate your, your breakthrough, but this is where I cannot wait to have this conversation with you about this. So we had a session, I think it was like on a Tuesday or Monday, and then you're like, cool, I have so much clarity, I'm going to play out my what I do script and I'm going to go and use it in a networking opportunity that you had and it was like game changing. It was like, oh my gosh, can you talk a little bit about that?
35:32 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Absolutely so. I was at breakfast and I was talking to someone who I've known for a while We've known each other and he had brought me in to speak and it had gone really well. And he's like, well, he's like, tell me what you what, what he's like, tell me more about what you do so I can figure out, you know, basically a way to kind of repay me. And so I, I, I went into my unrefined, really unrefined at that point, little spiel, so to speak.
36:07
Like I work with science driven entrepreneurs, um, who are trapped, as you know, owner operators. They're trapped as operators and they've been the bottleneck and they need to transform into strategic leaders in order to allow the business to grow and succeed. And, on top of that, there's a complexity threshold that they've reached not just in their business, but it's impacting the rest of their lives, and so on and so forth reach not just in their business, but it's impacting the rest of their lives, and so on and so forth. And here's how I go about addressing those things. And I had no idea that I was talking to my ideal client until I stopped talking and he said Brad, I don't know what this is going to look like, but you just described me, you just described my situation and you just described what I need. Just described my situation and you just described what I need.
36:57
Like where do, where do we go from here? And uh, and it was, you know. It's just like wow, talk about proof of concept right off the bat. And um, and he's, and so you know, very, very shortly after that he says so like does this look? Like? You know, you send me a proposal? Or like you know what does this look like? And I was so kind of caught by surprise I kind of didn't really know what to say. I said, well, we need to sit down and we need to have a discovery conversation which at the time, I didn't know was actually the right thing to say.
37:35 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I was like you're the impact and Income Accelerator. You should know it's a discovery meeting.
37:39 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
I was hoping. I wasn't going to have to talk to you about that, but I think this happened right before we started the Impact and Income Accelerator program.
37:50
I think it was that morning or something, and I think we had a meeting, and then you're like would you just share this, like right, as soon as we get started today? And I was like sure. So I was very relieved in our group that you're like here's the steps. And I was like phew, I didn't just try and like give him a price or something right off the bat, but so yeah, so we've had our discovery meeting and he's eager to get started, so yeah, Well, perfect, because we could use you as a guinea pig for the proposal process that we're doing next week, so yay.
38:27 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
What I really love about this is like sometimes people not all the time, because people are like I just need to get the clarity and confidence you know in in what I do. I'm like, okay, but what's ROI? And one of the KPIs that I go after, you know, in the brand messaging work is like one is like just saving you from the hours of spin. Like I would say conservatively, my clients, before they work with me, they're spending like 20 hours a week and spin, you know, and I could like get it down to five.
38:53
I don't know if you can verify if you think. I got it down to like five or less, but it's like not spin, it's just like strategic time. But then the other one is like get better results from the networking you're already doing. You know, and I think that that's where you immediately got results, because you were on point around the ideal client you didn't talk about yet, about like all the things that you do. You don't even have your offers framed up yet, but you were able to make that connection by describing it and I think that that's the power, because a lot of times people go into networking events and it's like I'm an organization development consultant and I ignite leadership and organizational potential. If you would have said something like that, I don't know if it would have resonated, but you painted the picture of the ideal client. And just because you did that so well and I think that's what you said I did well on my website is I painted the picture of, like the current you know, like where they're at.
39:43
That's the game changer. That's where the results come.
39:46 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, but there's a better part of this story too.
39:50 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
You didn't even talk about the better part of what he also said about the 50 other people that he wants to introduce.
39:56 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
I forgot about that, not really, but in this conversation, and he said, and he said, you know he's like there's 50 other me's in this industry that I work in that that you know could potentially connect you with. So you know, a little bit of pressure to get that, that good experience I mean, and that's you know. That's another thing that I've struggled with or that I struggled with. You mentioned the transition and the turning point earlier was my business is not the skincare business, but you know, my coaching and my consulting had primarily been word of mouth and it had been adequate, right.
40:39
But then, looking to make this shift, this change of focus in the coaching, I knew that word of mouth wasn't going to get me where I needed to go, right, I still believe that the best salesman for what I do is someone who's experienced it and talks to someone else, um, but uh. But you know this need to just really be clear and be able to clearly express through my outlets, um, and also in conversations, what it is that I do and who I do it for. It's a game changer. It was so much different. Sorry if I'm babbling a little bit here, but that conversation was just so powerful because it was so different Because normally when people would ask me what do you do, I would have started with the what right?
41:31
But I think when you're talking about your ideal client. That's where the purpose comes in.
41:39 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Like why?
41:41 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
I work with these particular people because there's a purpose to us working together and that was a game changer, right? Because coaches a lot of us do a lot of the same things, right? So, if you're talking about the what it's like, okay, well, you know, I have another client. He always jokes around. He's like I went to another networking event and I couldn't turn around without spilling my coffee on a coach. You know, it's like coaches are everywhere. It's like, okay, well, how do we differentiate ourselves? I really think it's through the ideal, really understanding the who and the why, and then the what, secondary.
42:21 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I think, if I don't, if I might, can I push back on a couple things you said?
42:26 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Absolutely, absolutely.
42:28 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I'm not the expert, but no, because no, I feel like what you're saying is the ideal client is the game changer, and that is where your purpose is. I think, when you say that the referral people are the best, best potential clients, I don't experience it that way, because referral people don't always know exactly what it is that you do. Like my best clients come from, like people like you. I didn't nobody knew you, but it's like you probably found me from my content on my website and those people are like looking for a solution. Sometimes referrals like they're not looking for a solution, so you almost like have to paint the picture you know, like you have to do that Like.
43:03
but if you had something to give to that guy, that if you would like on your website you have like a blog post or something that spoke to him and he could like forward it Like, maybe that could kind of like start driving more of the relationship. Like, everybody's not always ready. Who people who refer you to?
43:17
you know like they're not always like, at the end of that process and I think that's where there's a myth is like oh, the referral. But then it's like, oh, they get ghosted. It's like is those are the best clients because they're actually coming to that awareness like you did. You know, if somebody referred me to you a year ago, you know it wouldn't have happened. It was because you were ready, you were looking for something. So I just want to clarify that part. There was something else I wanted to hit. What was the other things? There was something else that was important. I wanted to what was the last part of what you said? Because it was important.
43:58 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Maybe it was. I was talking about how I would have started by saying what I do.
44:03 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
No, that part is accurate. Okay no-transcript science-based leaders to you know, into, like these science-based founders, into these strategic leaders. You know how to do that. That's a different value proposition, that's a different skill set and I think that's where coaches we like get too focused around, like our methodology or like the idea of coaching. Like I ask questions or I'm a consultant, I give advice. You know, whatever it is that we do, but, we all have different kinds of expertise.
45:00
Like if you go around our, you know in our group like everybody has coaching as an ability, as a delivery mechanism, but everybody has a different type of expertise. And so why would I bring just? It's not just that you're passionate about these particular leaders, it's that you have the relevant expertise that these particular leaders need. You know how to build science-based businesses. You know how to. You know how us, you know their science, you understand the science behind what they do. That's a different kind of expertise and that's also part of what the differentiation is.
45:34
It's the whole package of your ideal client, is the starting point and the context for your help. And then you insert you into the picture. Like to me, like my, if I just had generic branding expertise, would it be the same as me having 30 years in the consulting or coaching industry? It's like I know how to do branding for consultants and coaches Out of my 30 years in the industry, 15 years of running my own business. So, just like I don't want to diminish, I guess I wanted to bring that up because, like you, have a really powerful expertise that they need and it's more than your ability to ask good questions and listen and help them set goals, and you know like it's so much more than that.
46:12 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Yeah, is that okay?
46:14 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Did I push back on?
46:14 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
that one Absolutely and I agree completely. I think I was thinking in terms of like Simon Sinek's, like golden circle, like the what right? There's lots of companies that produce frying pans, right, but then you get into like well, how do we produce a frying pan right? Like we start to differentiate. So I agree completely. I think I was referring to like you know, I think we, well, all coaches coach, right, Right, but then you get to how you do it and what your actual expertise is that you're bringing to the coaching. That's where we start to differentiate. So I agree, Yep.
46:56 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
And especially around the ideal client, because you can start to see, like, let's say, like on ICF, they might suggest, like you put on your website, you know, like the difference between consulting or coaching, or why hire a coach, or something like that. Like, let's say you were going to have a blog post on that, which I don't, I would not recommend because it's like too us-centric, not client-centric. But let's say you wanted to flip it and you wanted to make that kind of blog post that's more specific to your audience. You would say, you know, why do you? You know science-based founders need help transforming into a strategic leader, or why they can't do it on their own. Or five steps to go from a you know, instead of just having that generic. So, like now you know the ideal client.
47:32
Like now the content. You can start thinking a thousand, you know pieces of content. You know, like why is it that? You know, why is it I can grow a science career but I can't, like leave my business? Or you know five reasons, five sneaky reasons, why your business might be plateaued.
47:45
And then you can put a parentheses. You know your, your, your parentheses, you know your, your, your MD might be the problem, you know, or something like that, you can start to see the article start to play themselves out. So now you have this clarity, now you're excited, tell us what's next, cause I I'm excited to bring you onto the show where it, where we're mid process, like everything's not buttoned up so that it to be clear that there is value just in the clarity. But you need more than you need more than the clarity to build the business that you said you wanted, where you want to attract more than word of mouth and you want to be able to reshape the market's understanding of you. So what else are you working on to align your business and your brand?
48:34 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Well. So the next thing that we'll be working on is what's on my mind, which is framing the offers right, and so I have in my head, I have two off right. There's coaching, which I think if you go to a lot of coaches' websites, they'll be like, well, you have to contact me for like the fully customized right thing, and it really doesn't say anything. So I'm curious to see what we come up with as as like the framing of the coaching offer right. And then I also in in partnership with with a guy I've been working with for a few years, um, and through his company it's called evolve. We also have a what we call the aligned leader program that we're developing, which touches on a lot of the things that I already mentioned.
49:16
That's been really cool to kind of see the alignment between what I do on the coaching side and this thing that we're building together. So, yeah, it's, how do we frame those? How do we put this out there? You know, website needs to be updated, everything needs to be updated, you know. And then for me, it's also just an exciting time to go out and start. I'm not afraid to start having some conversations now, right? Yeah, you know, it's such a game changer. And now, when people ask me what I do, you know my mind immediately goes to well, it's what I do, but it's more importantly, it's who I do this with Right.
49:57
So if they are going to refer someone to me. They're like OK, well, oh, this is the person you described. Ok, well, that's really where we ought to start.
50:03 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So I don't know if that fully answers your question, but that's a perfect answer and and I like how you clarified is like yeah, I know I need to build all this other stuff, but I can get traction now you know, because I'm really clear, I could tell the story of my ideal client and the transformation that they get from working with me, and the rest will manifest.
50:21
And I think that by you having these conversations, like the opportunities will start, you know, coming your way automatically anyway, which also help you as you are working on all the other pieces. You know the one, like if you're going to work on content, at any point in time, like as you're networking, you just start paying attention, like well, what are the questions people ask you? Like start like writing it down, what are? What are people saying that they're resonating with? And that's where you know you have like really good copy.
50:54
So how do people get a hold of you now? Like so if, if there's people who know science-based leaders of a company or science-based entrepreneurs, people who have a company let me see if I got this right, cause I like I want to know if I I'm testing myself like science-based entrepreneurs who have developed their company to a certain point because of their technical and scientific expertise, but then they kind of hit a wall and the results have hit a wall and they need to become strategic leaders so that they can stop being the bottleneck of the opportunities. If people know that person or that person is that person or they just want to learn more about you, connect with you, about your experience. How do they find you right now, while your website's under construction?
51:31 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
The best way would be through LinkedIn.
51:35 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
I imagine there's a lot of Brad Johnsons on LinkedIn. There are I'll put it in the show notes but, is there a? Do you have a hack in yours?
51:45 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Well, brad Johnson, charleston, south Carolina, and then executive performance coach. That might be a slightly different wording on that.
51:56 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes for sure, okay, great.
52:02
Yeah, this is where the benefit of Betsy Jordyn with a Y is, because it's hard, it's easy to find, but there is some other Betsy Jordyn with an A that people are probably finding it's easy to find, but there is some other Betsy Jordyn with an A that people are probably finding All right. So, as we wrap up, like is there? I got a couple like final wrap up questions, like for people who are struggling with their niche, you know, and choosing their ideal clients, like what tips would you give them?
52:25 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
Don't wait until you're ready to, and I don't know if that's like. I thought I had to get myself to a certain point before I reached out to get professional help, so to speak. So that would be my first tip is two heads are better than one, and find someone who will challenge you and push back, because that's where you'll achieve clarity. That would be my top tip. And then, yeah, take some time to reflect right. Some of the answers are in your fast right. Some of it's like right there, at least a starting point. So, yeah, those would be from my experience.
53:08 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Awesome. Is there anything else you want to talk? Tell me, or tell my audience, about just this whole process of you know pivoting your niche or growing your own consulting or coaching business, or you know even working with me or anything, and I'm just not asking the right question.
53:25 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
It kind of goes with what I was just saying. I think and I was victim of this as well say, oh, when should I do this? When will I be ready? And create the readiness. It's okay to take the leap before you're ready.
53:46 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
Well, that's a great note, that's perfect. Thank you so much and thank you for sharing your story. It's, you know, from from my perspective, I like I, because there's like things that happened in the middle that like we were had to stop for a couple weeks and I was like Okay, how's this going to do it? And and what I love about about you and maybe this is because of your endurance background is like you're just doing this, you, you know, on the whole thing, it's like I don't, I like I.
54:15
I talk about as a wrestling match because, like I do know that the clarity will come on the other side, and I watched you wrestle, even if it was hard, like you just kept showing up to the mat, and it's like I just know this is going to come on the other end.
54:29
So I think that that's just part of the process is is that you know, and especially when you're dealing with like your true like, if you want to do like the business that's meant for you, like that's part of like your vulnerability or authenticity is not naturally going to just show itself up, like I think Parker Palmer says, like the soul is shy and you just have to like wait for it. But sometimes you have to like you have to. The wrestling is I'm wrestling past like my false self, like all the stuff that I don't really want to get to the gold of what I really do want. It's like all of that stuff and and I just really appreciate you. Just you just hung in there like a like you just live your brand, you know, and you lived in your process. So it's been really fun working with you, so thank you for that.
55:09 - Brad Johnson (Guest)
It's been a fun process. It's been really fun working with you.
55:11 - Betsy Jordyn (Host)
So thank you for that. It's been a fun process and for those of you who want to join me on the wrestling match of your clarity um, you can find out more about my services at wwwbetsyjordyncom forward slash services or, better yet, you can book a call with me at um. If you go to my website, you could hit like the big pink button and it'll take you right to my calendar. Or if you want to go to the page that says schedule, you can go betsyjordyncom forward slash schedule. Whichever one, but let's chat. We will come up with a custom solution for you, and I think that is it for today. Thank you all for listening and I will see you all next time.
