Betsy Jordyn (00:00.13)
So are you a consultant or coach and you're trying to figure out how in the world do I package up like an extensive career, my experiences, and get it into messages and on a website and get it all done in less than thirty days without sacrificing quality and without over relying on AI? Well, you're definitely going to love this episode of the Consulting Matters podcast with my guest and client, Dorothy Mosbeam.
Betsy Jordyn (00:35.096)
Welcome to the Consulting Matters Podcast. This is the show for purpose-driven consultants and coaches who are ready to own the power of what they do and position themselves for the clients, the impact and income that they're ready for. I'm your host, Betsy Jordyn, and I'm so excited to have Dorothy Mosby on the show today. So Dorothy and I started working together a couple months ago. So she was on a webinar and she's like, I need to work on my brand positioning, but only problem is I have a really important event.
And it's about 30 days from now. What can we do? How do we get this done? And I'm like, I've never gotten a website done. I haven't gotten brand positioning done and the website and everything done. I'm like, but I'm going to take this on because I think that Dorothy has so much to offer our clients and I wanted to make it a success. And we did it. And we got her an amazing website. So you're going to hear all about her experience and what it's like to go from being an academic to a leadership coach and a business owner and all of that.
And so without further ado, let me just welcome Dorothy to the show. I'm so glad to have you here.
Dorothy Mosby (01:35.406)
It is great to be with you, Betsy. Thank you.
Betsy Jordyn (01:39.512)
So I really am so grateful for the challenge that you put in front of me and my team because I don't think we've ever gone through it's not even that we just got a website done. You weren't even a thousand percent sure on your business direction when we started. And I'm just amazed that we were able to make that happen. And I love everything that if for those who are watching, you get to see all of our brand colors are here. But well, before we get into the whole experience, like bring us back into
your experience. So you're an academic leader and then you were in charge of a lot of different things. So bring us back to your career and the crossroads you were at before you and I started working together.
Dorothy Mosby (02:18.262)
Yeah, thank you so much, Betsy. You know, it's been quite a journey and it's been a really interesting one. I've been a faculty member for goodness, probably well over 25, probably close to 30 years now. And I've been in academic administration for the past 10 years. And so last last year I stepped down from my position.
as a senior leader, as chief academic officer, and really thinking about well, what's next for me? And I have all of this experience in academia, both as a faculty member and also as a senior leader, and you know, a wealth of experience. It's like, what do I do with it? I still wanted to stay engaged in higher education, but wasn't quite sure where it was going to take me.
And so I started doing some tiny experiments, doing some coaching, talking to some colleagues and friends about, well, what are you working on? And the thing that lit me up quite a bit was both the coaching, coaching aspiring leaders and people who are already in leadership, as well as mid-career faculty. But also when my colleagues were talking about the conflict that they were experiencing.
either on their teams or in different academic departments, that is what really lit me up. You know, just really wanting to help support them and and help them navigate some situations that seem pretty intractable. And you know, knowing that I can make a difference in this space.
Betsy Jordyn (04:02.636)
So when you were at that crossroads and you're trying to figure out like, okay, so I wanna leave my job, what made you decide I wanna do this for myself rather than going for a promotion, you know, maybe in another school or university? Like what made you decide like I wanna do my own thing? Was it that you really enjoy the coaching and you started feeling passionate about the clients and the opportunities around conflict resolution? Or was there something else that was driving you to say, I wanna do my own thing?
Dorothy Mosby (04:31.118)
I think it was a combination of things. first, just sort of looking at the landscape of where higher education is. And I didn't feel like a lateral move was the right one for me. You know, I've been there, I've done that. you know, there are some challenges, but you know, nothing I I haven't quite seen before. And the next step was to be president.
of a college. And that also to me didn't quite feel right, really, because I just wasn't ready to be quite external facing and public. I I like doing the behind the scenes work quite a bit. And so neither of those seemed like the right choice for me. And really kind of looking at my values and what's important to me. I value my autonomy, my independence.
being able to think freely, but also being able to do the work that I like to do. And so looking at coaching and consulting was really a pathway at that autonomy and independence.
Betsy Jordyn (05:40.002)
Yeah, so it sounds like it's a little bit of both the freedom and the independence that you're talking about, but also it still represents more of a promotion for you. So the promotional path of going for a president role, like, yeah, that was an option, but it didn't appeal to you because of these other values around bringing that you know, having that more the more that freedom and that control. So it could provide both sides is I can do my own thing my way.
But I could do it in a more expanded version of what I've been doing, take my experience to the next level.
Dorothy Mosby (06:11.276)
Right. And also, Betsy, considering, you know, I'm I'm, you know, a woman of a certain age. I'm not quite ready for retirement yet. And, you know, to to also have the ability to create something of my own, to be my own boss and take on the projects that were important to me and those things that I really wanted to take on, but also giving myself the time and the space to be able to do other things.
was also very attractive to me.
Betsy Jordyn (06:44.844)
Yeah, so I I that's what is something that I really love about being a business owner, you know, is you do get to create like your own legacy, your own body of work. Like this is what I want it to be all about, you know, and if you are moving into whatever phase of life you want to be. Like when I started my business, my kids were little, so I wanted to be at home with them. You know, now I'm on the other side of it. And that does give you that freedom to make other kind of life choices as well and to be able to kind of have your own
This is this is how I wanna make a difference in the world.
Dorothy Mosby (07:18.422)
And another thing about midlife is also the the responsibility of caregiving, caregiving for elderly family members. You know, I also wanted to be able to do that without feeling the push-pull pressure, as, you know, as a senior leadership position does. And
You know, and now my mom is living at home, you know, with us and you know, she's living a great life. And I'm glad to be able to provide that and also to have the time and space to spend with her.
Betsy Jordyn (07:54.088)
that is what the best part. Like when you get to have control over your time, you get to fill it up with the things that are important and spending time with with a parent who's getting older, you know, like that's hugely important. So it sounds like for you a lot of it is is I still wanna make a difference. I still want to contribute, I still wanna grow, I still need to provide for people in my life and myself included, and I also wanna have the freedom to run my life and make the impact that I wanna make in
In however it works best for me.
Dorothy Mosby (08:25.826)
Right.
Betsy Jordyn (08:28.14)
So what were you struggling with before we we met? So you participated, I think in like the my live webinar that I did on the common good is when you and I first met, but what were you struggling with? So it seems like you were really clear that I wanna have my own business. You had some ideas of you know, I like helping leaders, I like helping mid career people, I like dealing with conflicts. So you had some ideas of areas that you wanted to work in.
What were you struggling with that made you decide like, Hey, I I think I wanna take a next step and work together?
Dorothy Mosby (09:00.312)
For me, the consulting part was crystal clear. I I knew it was it's conflict resolution, leadership development support, you know, that was very clear. The coaching was a little bit more squishy because I had in mind, you know, my ideal coaching client and also experience with coaching people that weren't necessarily my ideal coaching client.
But man, I really enjoyed those transformative conversations. And I think my struggle was trying to get everybody, you know, in the same, you know, in the same sort of bucket. And, you know, I I didn't want to give up anything. I didn't necessarily want to give up the mid-career faculty in order to, you know, position myself to support senior leaders. I didn't necessarily want to give up aspiring leaders because also that is.
Where also some real transformative, you know, coaching conversations, you know, becomes really critical for someone who is thinking about stepping into to a leadership position. And so I didn't want to give up any of those, those pieces. but the struggle was trying to find sort of that that umbrella, you know, to hold everyone.
Betsy Jordyn (10:18.104)
So do you feel like you got the umbrella?
Dorothy Mosby (10:20.79)
I I didn't get actually I decided to to let some pieces go. But also being open, you know, if someone, you know, so my focus, you know, turned to senior leaders. But I also know that those senior leaders are the same people who are going to be supporting mid-career faculty and also aspiring leaders as well. And so what I envisioned happening is out of those conversations with senior leaders.
about what I can provide, what I can offer, the support I can bring to themselves and their institutions, that they also would be willing to bring along others with them.
Betsy Jordyn (11:02.74)
And and I think that there was a through line though. So when we first started working together, it was like, okay, which direction do you want to go? Like we tried on a couple of different features and was we worked through the brand positioning. You know, but really at the end of the day, like the through line really is academic leaders or leaders in academia. You know, you're not dealing with leaders in any company, you know, like you're not dealing with just anybody. We're dealing with leaders in higher ed academia.
You know, and that was the environment. So that pr did provide some through line and then then really good targeting at that point. Like who's our who's my most likely, most profitable particular client? Like how do I get my messaging to speak to that person? But on the whole, we're still talking to academic leaders. And that was like that was some degree of a through line. Do you agree with that?
Dorothy Mosby (11:52.95)
Absolutely, absolutely. That also was very crystal clear to me that, you know, I wanted to remain in the higher ed space. one is because it's the space that I I know the best and the most, but it's also the space that in terms of my own values, that you know, that is where it is. I believe in higher education, I believe in the transformative, you know, power of higher education.
And also just a deep desire to support the people who are doing the work to educate our future society and future generations.
Betsy Jordyn (12:29.368)
So I don't normally get somebody from like because there were s several different directions that we can go through to the level that we have an amazing website, you know, launch ready and we got it done, you know, in time for your event. So talk to me a little bit about your event and what do you think, like what was the driver for the event that gave us that deadline? And how do you think that having that specific event
really helped focus us through your brand positioning and messaging process, like knowing in advance, like I need this website. Like tell us about the event and why was it important for you to have a high quality website that cac, you know, accurately captured, you know, what you what you wanted to do. Why was that important? What was the event? Why was it important? And how did having that defined time period really help give focus and energy for the project that we worked on together?
Dorothy Mosby (13:22.658)
Well, the event was the the HERS reunion and conference. And HERS is an organization of women higher ed leaders. I had gone through their leadership institute for training. And, you know, this is a kind of a homecoming in a way. It was also my debut as a coach and as a consultant.
So I was introducing or reintroducing myself to colleagues, not as Dorothy Mosby, Vice President for Academic Affairs, not as Dorothy Mosby, Dean of Faculty at X Institution, but as Dorothy Mosby, coach and leadership consultant. And so what this did, and my desire was, well, I want to have something to show.
You know, I want to have a business card, I wanna have a website, I want to be able to to demonstrate to people like not only am I saying this, but I also have, you know, some some representation, you know, a website that I'm I'm actually doing this. And I was also on two panels that were very that are very close to to what
I envision, you know, coaching more on and supporting more women around. And that is I was on a panel talking about transitions. And so being a leader of an institution or senior leader at an institution and transitioning either to a different role, different institution, or in my case, you know, transitioning, you know, into entrepreneurship, you know, having my own coaching coaching and consulting practice.
And I was also in a panel about self-care for women leaders in higher education, another topic that, you know, is very near and dear to my heart and also one that I coach around as well. And so, you know, to be able to be on those two panels, engage in conversations with participants, and to be able to say, you know, please visit my website, let's have a conversation, let's follow up.
Dorothy Mosby (15:41.521)
here's my card, let's stay in touch, was really meaningful and important to me to have at that moment in time.
Betsy Jordyn (15:50.328)
So some people would say, well, why would you need that? Like you already had the panel that you were on. You already had the credibility, had the networking. Like why can't you just, you know, s just go on Canva, print out any old business card? You don't need a website. Like like some people would say that. What would you say to them? Like what difference did it make for you to have something that was such a great representation of what you wanted to wanted it to be about in your photos? Everything looked amazing. Like what difference did it make?
for you that you had it at that level.
Dorothy Mosby (16:22.766)
I think Betsy really touched on it. It's it's about representation, right? You know, when I represent myself, when I represented myself as, you know, part of an institution, you know, I wanted to make sure that, you know, my messaging is clear, you know, the visual presentation is clear and understandable. And so I wanted to do the same thing for myself.
Right. And so have a clear message, you know, have a clear brand, you know, something that was visual, something that represented me. And the same thing, you know, you know, thinking about the website, you know, having that representation. you know, one thing, Betsy, when we were talking about the website, you said, well, you need to get a branding photographer. I'm like, brand I was just gonna call my cousin down the street.
you know, he's a photographer, you know, but you're like, no, you need, you know, you need someone who specializes in that. And I was really fortunate to find LeJune King, who was a terrific branding photographer, made me feel comfortable. I felt like Oprah, you know, during the photo shoot. And I feel like I have photos that represent who I am.
you know, warm, welcoming, but also very professional at the same time, dedicated to academia. And, you know, to be able to put those images on a website that also, you know, demonstrates that I am warm, approachable, very professional, highly competent. And, you know, to have both of those together, you know, having a clear message to to get out into the world to tell people this is what I'm doing and this is who I am.
Betsy Jordyn (18:12.558)
Well, I would have to say your photographer was amazing. You know, as I looked through the folder of all the photos and we chose to go with a single page website for you, my heart broke. I'm like, how do I pick out of these out of these pictures? And I sent it off to the team. I'm like, I don't know how you're gonna do this. Like this
Like do your best because they're all so good. And it's like I can't leave any of these behind. Like there was one I think you had it in a purple jacket that I don't know if we really got onto the website. I'm like, but it's so good. There's so many pictures that are so good. And then it's like, I love the picture. Like for those of you who are listening and you have the opportunity to head on over to our website. It's www.dorothymosby.com. I th I believe is your is your URL.
Dorothy Mosby (18:57.368)
Yes.
Betsy Jordyn (18:59.17)
But there's like in the about picture, like I just see it so clearly. Like there's a polka dot shirt that you have and your hair is up and you got the cute hand shoes on. But it's like it's so friendly and so relatable. And I I believe that that was a huge part of why the website came out as good as it did. Is you did do that work to get the amazing photos and it definitely showed. It definitely showed. How did it make you feel to see yourself reflected in that way? Like I noticed with a lot of my clients when we go through go through the photo shoot.
Especially when they get good photos. Like when they have like a not great photographer, it's a bad thing. It's a very depressing experience. But you when you have a good one, you know, like what do you how did it make you feel to see that mirroring back to you? And like what did it mean to you about like what it what it means that I'm like a legitimate business owner or something like that?
Dorothy Mosby (19:48.824)
was and I and I hate to use the word because it gets used so often, but it was such an empowering experience. Right. To to be in a photo session. And like I said, it I felt like Oprah, right? You know, doing her O magazine. You know, it was it was, you know, it was empowering. I felt validated. I felt, you know, that yes, I am going in the right direction.
you know, for myself. It just felt like things were just coming together. And to have such a stunning, you know, representation of, you know, both the the work, the work ethic, but also a certain level of elegance and gravitas.
you know, in the photos as well. you know, just kudos to LeJune King because she she really you know, did it right as a photographer, you know, and also the the the experience of having a a makeup artist you know, do the the makeup for the the the website as or for the photos as well. I mean, again, just empowering. It's like, wow, like I don't need a facelift, I just need some good makeup, right?
Betsy Jordyn (21:08.959)
Right? You know.
Dorothy Mosby (21:10.407)
I I just need a good concealer and we could just keep it moving. and so it was just it was just such a beautiful experience and you know I I I didn't know, you know, what it was going to be like and I'm so glad I did it and again it was so empowering.
Betsy Jordyn (21:29.922)
You know, the photos are are really important of having the right person with the makeup and then somebody who could pose you. Like when I I just r I relaunched my website after I came out of sabbatical a couple of years ago and I had one photographer who didn't pose me and I don't like the outfits were not really me. And the output was like I like, my god, I look so old. Like I look terrible. And my my podcast team who's editing this particular podcast, she was like, Well, you know
You might just have to like hear that song about like the story, like these lines in my face tell you the story of where I've been. And I'm like, I've gotten to this place. Like, no, I've aged online. You know, and then I went back to my photographer who I had worked with before and it was awesome. Like she had amazing, amazing, amazing makeup artists, but then she posed me and I was like.
Even before the photos were edited, it's like, no, darn it, I'm aging in power. Like it feels so different. I think for especially for women of a certain age, where it's not like, you know, these lines on my face tell you, like, no. I no, I'm not I'm not giving up. You know, at this particular age, I'm not giving up. I'm aging in power. It is what it is. And I think Yes. Like I think it's important for anybody.
Who's going through the whole process of solopreneurship and where they're the face and they're the brand, you know, like that they want to have something where somebody can draw out their best representation. But I also feel like for those of us who are women who are mid-career, you know, like we're at a different phase in their life where it's like we still want to look like we are putting our best foot forward and having a photographer who can
dress you in the outfits that fit well for you and pose you. Even when I look at the outfit you're wearing right now and all of that that's behind you in your background, like this is totally your website. Like this is you. And so when people get on your website, they're not gonna they're gonna see this great version of you with your pictures, but it's you. It's not like there's it's not like it's a different person. It's not like you had
Betsy Jordyn (23:35.446)
so much makeup and you're dressed in a way where it's like, yeah, it's a glamour shot and it it's not congruent. It is congruent. You have a headband on right now that in your necklace is just like your your logo. You know, it ha it evokes your logo. Yeah. And the pictures behind you evoke your color palette. So it's is congruent.
Dorothy Mosby (23:57.72)
You know, absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, I wanna go back to something I heard you say, you know, Betsy, you know, just about, you know, women, midlife.
You know, we've we've earned, you know, we've earned the wrinkles and the gray hair, but also, you know, being at this wisdom stage, you know, of life, you know, we have so much to give and you know, so much to to also grow as well. And so it's just like for me, you know, my twenties were great, 30s were all right, you know, but you know, being in my 50s, like this is where I really feel, you know, feel my power.
Betsy Jordyn (24:37.9)
I think that that is an important thing too when it comes to consulting or coaching. You know, if you think at the end of the day, a lot of times or or let me put it this way, like a lot of times I think consultants and coaches think that they sell, like their methodology, you know, or a particular approach. You know, but really at the end of the day, we do share sell our lived wisdom. You know, like we are the mentors to these clients who are on this heroic journey and what we're bringing is that wisdom.
And I feel like it that is I think this is where a lot of my passion for the websites come from is to make sure that we are we are showing up as that person who has that live wisdom that they could pass on to other people. And I think that a shoddy website doesn't convey wisdom. It doesn't convey depth of experience, it doesn't convey depth of knowledge. It's just like, okay, here's my online resume. And and you did not get an online resume. You have a
You have a a representation of like, no, this is an invitation. This is how I want to work with you.
Dorothy Mosby (25:41.88)
Yeah, exactly. And I also had the wisdom to know that I could not do it myself. that, you know, that, you know, I reached a point where, you know, I did the the self-work. I did the work to kind of, you know, dig into, okay, I know I'm heading in this direction, but I also knew I couldn't take myself to the next, you know, level in terms of thinking about branding and positioning.
And I also, you know, could not do the website on my own either. I just did not have those skills and and talents. And so the wisdom also came in knowing that, you know, when to to call in for some additional support on those.
Betsy Jordyn (26:26.316)
Well, I am so glad you did. And I'm glad of all the options that you had in front of you, you chose me. But what were the other options that you were considering? Like when you were saying, All right, like what was the indication that I can't do this on my own? And what were the other things that you tried before you and I connected?
Dorothy Mosby (26:43.126)
Well, I tried it on my own. and of a very dear you know, coaching buddy, you know, was was willing to help me put my website together. But it also didn't feel like, you know, I didn't really know enough. Like I I knew some, but I didn't know enough. And, you know, certainly, you know, to be able to translate, you know, what I want to do and who I wanna serve.
And you know, how I want to present myself, being able to translate with someone who had done the work and had the experience doing it was important to me. so I wanted to be done well and I wanted to be done right. I know that further down the road there will be changes and some, you know, perhaps some different iterations. but for me right now, you know, having you know, having starting off on a good foot.
and and not feeling like, mm, I don't know, you know, you know, was important to me as well.
Betsy Jordyn (27:45.646)
So you worked with you so you tried it on your own, you had a coaching buddy help you. Is there anything else that you tried before you and I connected?
Dorothy Mosby (27:54.102)
You know, I I I I had to call a millennial, you know, Dylan Millennial, who who has, you know, the experience in branding and social media. And so she was able to get me to a good place, but not not being able to sort of take me to that next level. And, you know, I've been listening to your podcast for a while and also, you know, doing some of the exercises along with
you know, the podcast and I said, you know, let's let me let me check out Betsy. you know, because in terms of your values, you know, I think there's there there was there's alignment there. And, you know, your work with mid-career professionals, you know, definitely that was a a plus. And, you know, just knowing that you would be able to help me, you know, kind of work through this this middle place I was in, you know, to be able to kind of
being able to identify my brand and and positioning and have a a beautiful re weapon representation in the website.
Betsy Jordyn (28:56.898)
So some people might be saying, Well, if you really needed something done, like why don't you just use AI? You know, you can just chat with Claude and Claude could help you and Claude could even design your website. Like why would you why did you need a human, you know, like me to work it through? I appreciate all the nice things you said about me. But why is it you needed a human rather than, you know, AI to help you?
Dorothy Mosby (29:20.318)
Because AI, you know, to me, I'm you know, I I'm an educator, I have some real struggles around, you know, AI. I do believe that it can be a really fantastic tool, but there is that human element to it that AI cannot give you. you know, there is that that reality check. I mean, most of the AI is set up to be a little more.
I would say pandering, you know, to the user, a little more favorable than necessary. you know, and and you told me flat out, I don't think so. That's you know, you could go that way, but that's that's not gonna work out well for you. And you know, to be able to have a human being who has the experience to tell you that, you know, is is so much important more important.
And also the human level of creativity as well is is also needed. I mean, sure, AI can take you to different things. It can kind of, you know, help you fill in some gaps here and there. but you still need to have the the rooted knowledge and the insight and the understanding of the client on an emotional level that AI just cannot possibly provide anyone.
Betsy Jordyn (30:45.438)
And even so, like even if you have a design like now, I could spot AI designs like so fast. It's like, no, Claw designed that. You know, and it's like there's all these tells. Like I have a common template I use for my websites, you know, like in terms of the messaging, but the branding itself is all very different. And the, you know, and what you fill in the blanks, you know, are all all very different for every person. And and I feel like that there's some of it is that if you see it
like AI made your website, I think it diminishes your credibility because then it tells somebody like I didn't spend a lot of time on this. Like I didn't really think this through, you know, and here it is. Like s a client showed me like, hey, what do you think of this website yesterday? And it was like, it was clearly an AI website for a law firm. And all it said at the top for the hero is clarity and confidence. I'm like, what does that have to do with a law firm?
Like it doesn't even make sense. You know, like it's just there's a lot of things about it where it's like, but if you don't know what you're looking for, you know, then then you can go forward. And I think the reason why I could say it is like, Well, I know what I'm looking for. Like I've been doing this for over ten years. Like I've been in the field for thirty. Like I know what to look for.
And I feel like it's kind of like a jazz, a jazz musician. Like you have to learn the scales. You have to learn the scales in order to divert from them, you know? And so you have to like learn the principles like a master so that you know how to break them like an artist. And you wouldn't know that if you haven't had the experience. And I feel like like you and I went faster than we normally would. My team normally would say, There's literally no way, like if I said, I don't know why my team it was such an interesting process because I'm like, all right, I got this really special client.
What can we do to pull this thing off in 30 days? You know, because she's got this event. And normally they would say it's like eight weeks, you know, like eight weeks getting everything done with all the back and forth with the visual branding. They're like, I sense that she's great too. We'll do it. And so, you know, as soon as you and I started working together, like you got, I gave you all the decisions. And what's so interesting about you is you were calm for everything. Like I gave you a lot of things that we needed to get done. And in
Betsy Jordyn (32:52.488)
every task you were like I for those who are listening can't see me just putting my hand out like it's just flat line like you were just calm, calm, calm through every single thing and we were on an accelerated timeline. So I give you all the credit is because I think if you were all frazzled and got overwhelmed, like we wouldn't be able to pull it out. But you're like that. Is this is that you is just is that just who you are or why were you so calm?
Dorothy Mosby (33:20.468)
That that's just that's how I was born. You know, that that's just how I am. and I think, you know, that's one of the things that really contributed to me being able to step into to different leadership roles is really maintaining a sense of calm. You know, there's a swirl going on, but there's a there's a through line, you know, in the midst of the swirl.
And and so I think, you know, I've just was able to approach it, okay, I know what I need to get done and I'm gonna get it done. And you know, also the motivation was there too, like I want to get it done.
Betsy Jordyn (33:59.286)
Like and you did it. Like it's like, okay, you need to have a photographer. The next day it's like, the photographer's booked and it's in a couple of days. It's like awesome. You know, like and then you need to review this. Great. You know, then you would you just handled everything and there was a lot that you handled. I can I borrow some of that calm? I think my daughter would greatly appreciate it if I could have some.
Like, you know, all the people in my life, like, can you just like give me an infusion? Like, I'll give you free branding stuff moving forward. Can I have an infusion of your calm? I would I think it's a great attribute. I could see why that would make you a really great leader and a great consultant and coach because of that.
Dorothy Mosby (34:37.186)
Thank you. Thank you so much. And you know, especially you know, thinking about conflict resolution when you have different parties who are in conflict with one another, you don't want someone in that room who is all keyed up as well. You know, you need to have someone to kind of, you know, set set a calm temperature in order to be able to discuss some really hard things. And so being able to sort of guide people.
you know, through what feels very uncomfortable, very difficult, but you know, trying to instill that calm and that confidence to know that, okay, this doesn't feel good, but we're gonna get through the other side and you let me know, you know, you know, how things are going. and so that definitely is a quality that I appreciate being, you know, having you recognize that. but it's also a quality that I I I recognize that I have, you know, people have told me.
but it's something that definitely comes in handy, you know, for leadership, but also facilitating and mediating and guiding some difficult conversations.
Betsy Jordyn (35:46.444)
Is it something that you coach your clients to develop or is that just something that you bring to the table that I can I can bring this, you know, grounded presence and this calm presence to you, or is it is this something that's a learnable skill?
Dorothy Mosby (36:01.55)
I believe it is a learnable skill. It hasn't quite come up yet in coaching in terms of someone wanting to have that kind of presence. But it certainly is something that can be cultivated and can be learned. I honestly believe that.
Betsy Jordyn (36:22.722)
So there were a couple parts of the process that were difficult though. I mean, so we don't wanna we don't wanna lie, make it seem like, you know, it was all smooth sailing. Like there was one part where you were like, I'm gonna cry now, because you're driving me crazy. And I don't know if you recall that moment. That is one of them that were difficult. Can you talk a little bit about that part and what what was it that you were facing and struggling with and what got you through to the other side?
And is there something I need to do better to make you not want to cry, you know?
Dorothy Mosby (36:53.71)
I do remember that. you know, because I l l my training is as a literature professor and I love words. I love the words that I put together. And I think there was a moment where you were like, you had too many words.
And you know, as a literature professor, like words are my friends, like, you know, I don't want to leave a friend behind. And you're like, uh-uh, you know, and and just kind of started editing and and that to me is like, my God, right? But I also knew and I trusted to kill my babies, right? Like
Betsy Jordyn (37:34.37)
Your babies.
Dorothy Mosby (37:43.246)
You know, like you know, I put together some phrases and some words and you know, and and here comes Betsy just like, nope, nope, too long, too many words, you know, too, you know, this it was just too much. And so and so I I wanted to cry at that moment, you know, I cause I had really invested a lot of thought and time in my words and, you know, how I wanted to to sort of phrase some things. And, you know, here comes Betsy just hacking my words.
And and so you know I and I think that was just the moment where it's like okay I'm just gonna trust Betsy, I'm gonna trust her, and and also just realizing that you know I I this is a new this is part of the new identity as well. Right. That this is not this is not an essay, you know, this is not a book, you know, this is really, you know, me marketing.
branding, positioning, identifying, you know, who I'm working with, what I provide them. And so this this is not an essay. and so it was really that realization that helped get me through. but but it it did hurt and I did want to cry. And I'm not a crier, but I, you know, I felt some kind of way at that time.
Betsy Jordyn (39:07.19)
I think it's also like facing like this the scope of the learning curve. Like I feel like a lot of times like if I I think I've used this analogy before, but it's like in I think it's like Rocky II, you know, where Rocky was like having to change the way he was fighting. So he's like normally a left he was a southpaw and he wanted to learn how to fight like with his right hand. And so he had to like literally get his like left hand kind of like tied down, you know, and in order to unlearn.
And I feel like that that's a lot of the times in the brand positioning and messaging is like the good messaging is not the same as academic writing and it's not corporate speak and it's not the third person kind of thing. And it's like it's it's a very different skill. And I feel like that that's a lot of like some of the wrestling match is getting to that clarity of like getting through all of the words to get to the essence. And I think some of it is is there's just an unlearning process that you have to go through. You can't think like an academic. And I think it's like I use a lot of like fill in the blank.
prompts and a lot of the stuff I do. And I people somebody asked me about it and it made me really reflect on like, well, why am I doing this? And I realized like that's how I taught myself copywriting. You know, that's how I taught myself messaging is I was a I wasn't an academic, but I was definitely trained in corporate speak. You know, I knew all the buzzwords and, you know, how to synergize this and, you know, and to your point that, you know, like I had all the words. Like I had a game in my mind that I thought would be fun to like
have it as part of my consulting and I called it lingo. Well I put all the corporate lingo in a little bingo game. So when you're bored in meetings, you know, people could play lingo, like kind of like sneak it with your friends. I'm like, that would be a fun little thing to sneak in, you know, if this is how much lingo people use. I was very fluent on all the lingo. And the only way I got out of it was to understand kind of like the structure of copy, you know, and the structure of messaging.
And I and I I think this is where it's like I it is such an unlearning process when I'm asking for questions on certain things like what's your expertise? Like we're not looking for a book, we're looking for a label. Because the the book's not gonna help us get clarity. The label is. And and I think that that's what you I think some of it is is I definitely was I could be more sensitive. I apologize for killing your babies.
Betsy Jordyn (41:23.328)
I will be more sensitive moving forward to not kill your babies. Or if I am, I will just say, I really love this baby, but this baby just needs to go and time out over here. You know, we'll we'll just put her over here and she's gonna be maybe future article, you know, future blog post. We'll save her for later. So I'll be more sensitive to that. And also be more more explicit around like this is an unlearning process. They have to like everything that you know about academic writing, you have to put it all to the side.
And that's that's part of the challenge.
Dorothy Mosby (41:53.934)
Yeah, it w it definitely was an unlearning process. you know, because we we do tend to sort of expand and sort of, you know, go off and come back, you know, to the center again. And, you know, this was a a a style of writing that was very crisp, clear, and to the point. And you know, it's like it feels like there's something missing. And it really wasn't, but the idea is to kind of connect.
you know, with, you know, with your, you know, with your client and potential clients. And, you know, you don't need to have all those words, right? Because you're really getting at the feeling and the emotion and not so much, you know, all of the the eloquent, eloquent prose, you know, that you could surround it with.
Betsy Jordyn (42:42.506)
And then all the other explanations, like I think a lot of times on our websites, we want to teach our clients, like we wanna inform them of like this is what you're doing wrong. This is behind why you're having all these problems. And it's like, well, that's something that you're gonna say for your pay program. You know, like you're not educating people on your website. You just wanna connect in with them so that they can book a call with you, but they're not gonna book a call with you by exposing
Like, you know, like, you you know, you don't need to tell them like, hey, it's your self limiting beliefs that's getting in your way. Like you don't need that in your copy. That's gonna show up later because that's not going to speak to where they're at. Like they're they're too they're not ready for that diagnosis yet. You know, they're not they they're not there yet. We have to meet where they're at. We have to meet at their point of departure. So can you share a little bit about like what the true passion is and your concern?
well that the all of helping leaders and academic leaders and people at midlife and resolving conflicts are all you're passionate about all of it. But there's a driving passion underneath a lot of what you do. can you share about that and why why it was hard to figure out like how to express it?
Dorothy Mosby (43:50.348)
Yeah, I I I came into academic administration, you know, really because of my commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. And, you know, one of my early roles was to you know, work with academic departments in terms of expanding their candidate pools for hiring for positions. And that was the work I was committed to, did some great work there.
But now that, you know, fast forward to where we are in 2026, you know, there has been this real chilling effect around talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher education right now. And my concern was: well, you know, it's true, that's what I'm committed to. that is, you know, that is what a number of my colleagues are also committed to. But also knowing full well that
we can't talk about it without really raising some red flags for some folks. And you know, although it is a a cornerstone of many academic missions, you know, it's some it's something that we can no longer, you know, expressly, explicitly talk about. And so I didn't want to, you know, kind of raise a red flag. I also didn't want to
cause any potential issues that colleagues who are at public institutions could possibly face if they wanted to work with me. And so the struggle or the challenge was really to kind of express the commitments that I want to have ultimately campus environments where everyone feels like they belong and where everyone can thrive.
And I want to work with leaders who are committed to doing that. But it did take us a while to land on the right language that wouldn't, you know, raise alarm bells and, you know, kind of, you know, create a controversy for people who wanted to work with me where, you know, nothing's particularly controversial about wanting to every, you know, wanting everyone to do well on their campuses and wanting everyone to thrive.
Betsy Jordyn (46:14.87)
And that's like the hard thing too, because there is this mission, you know, like and you want to bring it forward. But it's like how do you bring it forward in an environment, you know, where 'cause you still want to attract the right people who share that value, who want that. You know, so that like that's the push pull. And I think that I think you landed on it pretty well. Like how like I forgot what we had in the earlier draft of your website where we changed just one word and then
that was like what fixed it. Do you r do you recall that? I don't recall it off the top of my head. I don't
Dorothy Mosby (46:45.356)
recall it off the top of my head. I, you know, I mean it could have been any of the big three, right? It could have been diversity, it could have been equity, it could have been inclusion. It could have been any of those. I think I did keep inclusive in there because, you know, everybody wants to belong. Everyone wants to kind of find their space you know, in in the collage. you know, I I remember you know, sitting in on a a workshop.
that was given by Beverly Tatum, who's the former president of Spellman College, and just talking about, you know, there's a photo and, you know, people look for themselves in the photo. And what happens when you don't see yourself in that photo. And so I want to make sure that people see themselves, you know, in the different photos, regardless of your background, regardless of who you are, you know, everyone wants to see themselves.
Betsy Jordyn (47:42.25)
Especially like if you're talking about a campus, you know, you're dealing with academic academic institutions in the higher ed where there I imagine there's some degree of competition for students, you know, and if you wanna have more students who are from different backgrounds apply, you wanna have a faculty that mirrors that like I think what makes me crazy about the whole DEI like anti backlash, you know, is the business case didn't go away. The values didn't go away. Like what we now we wanna have
Like just take the opposite, you know, we want we wanna work in we wanna create organizations where everybody looks the same, you know, where people don't f like nobody belongs, like and nobody fits in, nobody feels included, and only certain people get perks and privileges over other people. Like just take the opposite of it. Who wants that kind of organization? Nobody's gonna put that on a mission statement and say, Yay, we want that. We all want we you know, we all want that. Like when I was at Disney we called
It rave. We wanted to create environments where everybody feels respected, appreciated, valued. You know, we respect, appreciate, and value everyone. Like that's why would that go away? But we did have to be smart about it. And I think that we found a really good balance to stay true to the mission without creating the flags that would be a barrier for whatever reason.
Dorothy Mosby (49:02.816)
Right. Yeah. And I I and I appreciate, you know, you working with me and understanding, you know, that that that particular challenge. you know, I don't want to, you know, have anyone who works with me be targeted. And I certainly don't want to be targeted, but I do want people who are committed to having, you know, thriving campuses.
Betsy Jordyn (49:25.078)
Especially in the leadership role, like where you talked a lot about what it was like for you to be the first and only in the room for a long period of time. Like that's a huge that's a huge thing to carry, you know, in terms or to have an experience, like a story that you have and it's like a responsibility. Like I know what it's like to be the first and only, you know, and now I wanna create opportunities where nobody says that they're the first and only. They maybe they're the first, but they're not the only. Julian. You know, and now there's
the other people are gonna be the seconds and the thirds and you know, like we don't even have to worry about that kind of number. But the that part is a huge part of your story. So for me, that was an important part that we had to integrate, you know, into you know, into your messaging that couldn't that that that was not a a word that I was going to murder, you know, like that that part of the value, like that was definitely gonna have to find a home.
Dorothy Mosby (50:21.07)
Definitely. And I appreciate that, Betsy.
Betsy Jordyn (50:24.75)
So is there what else would you say as we are wrapping up that really helped you get this business that is the right one for you at the quality level that we got it to in the speed that we got it to without relying overly relying on AI? that I'm just like I'm not asking you the right questions. Like what else would you say is what got you to success? And is there anything else you would want to share with my audience of consultants and coaches just like you?
about growing your own business and I'm not asking you the right questions about that either.
Dorothy Mosby (50:59.214)
I think, you know, there's a couple of things that stand out to me. One is, and I think, you know, in terms of working with you and also just thinking about, you know, others who may be thinking about, you know, doing their own businesses, it's just kind of like having that self-knowledge and self-awareness was really important to me. Like I I knew I wanted to do this, I knew why I wanted to do it.
And so, you know, sharing that with you, you really kind of helped and pushed and coached me, you know, through a process that was really alien to me. you know, I I've been in higher ed, you know, we sell classes, we sell education, but you know, certainly thinking about myself you know, as I am the business here. And and so kind of pushing me and encouraging me in that way. And then, you know.
Just thinking about other, you know, midlife entrepreneurs or potential entrepreneurs or people who are thinking about it really is just doing it, right? Having that self-knowledge, but also the confidence to just do it. My my word for this year was go. Right. And I feel like, you know, now that we're at the the the mid-year point.
You know, right now it's like, yeah, I I I I I have taken that word to heart. you know, just go and also just be open to the transformation and the learning and unlearning, you know, that happens in the process. I realized that there were a lot of things that I had kind of, you know, sort of, you know, taken on, but they don't serve me very well in this in this, you know, sort of.
new adventure and new identity that I'm taking on in my life at this point. And so leaving that behind, recognizing that it served me well at a moment in time, but moving forward, you know, I have to sort of think and learn and grow differently. And I think and I'm, you know, really grateful to you, Betsy, for kind of pushing me along, you know, particularly thinking about branding and positioning and, you know, the the beautiful website that I have.
Betsy Jordyn (53:18.2)
Thank you for the privilege and thank you for the challenge. I feel like what really made the whole engagement successful really was your beginner's mind though. Like so my take on the whole thing is that you came in with that word of go and there was the commitment. You knew exactly why you wanted to have your own business. You knew you wanted to work with academia, even though the direction wasn't wasn't clear, but you were so great in terms of like you took a little bit of of direction and then you would go apply it.
You know, even when it was difficult, you take a little direction, you apply it, take a little bit. And I think that's where the cadence was was able to be what it was, is because it wasn't a harried process. We were not rushed. It was you need to you need to make a decision on this, this, and this. You're like, got it. So here's the decision, here's the this, here's that. Then, you know, when my team gave the visual branding options, you're like, you didn't overthink it. Like I have some clients like they overthink every little thing, like, hey, can you scooch this thing over?
You know, you just like, nope, this decision, this decision, move. And then when we worked on the copy, like I think we had a couple of different iterations that we had to go through to kind of keep it, get it tight, especially when it got into the environment. Like, all right, we got a streamlit. You're like, all right, I'll do that. And everything was like a learn, apply, learn, apply, learn, apply. So I think I think that you created the conditions with your grounded presence and your
in your beginner's mind to really make the whole partnership as successful as it was. And hopefully continues to be. So so tell tell your tell the audience again your URL and what they will find when they get there and who they should be sending your way. Okay. What kind of clients should be sending your way.
Dorothy Mosby (55:03.07)
thank you, Bessie. So my website is wwwdorotymosby.com. And that's D-O-R-O-T-H-Y-M-O-S-B as in baseball. Y. And you know, the clients I'm looking to serve are leaders in higher education.
And you know, and leaders in higher education is a bit broad, you know, so it's not just the deans and the provosts and the pro vice presidents, but it's also the department chairs, the directors, you know, people who are occupying those positions, those are also our leaders. And those are also the leaders who will be leading, you know, the institutions in the future. And so those are the people that I really love to serve.
And also academic departments, units, and teams that are working their way through conf conflict or just want to be able to manage conflict better and to be able to foster a sense of, you know, if conflict comes, we're gonna look at this friction as something that is productive and not as something destructive.
Betsy Jordyn (56:19.342)
Can I add just a little bit to your messaging? Sure. So we're looking to attract more academic leaders who are really striving to create the thriving, inclusive school environments where everybody belongs. And they are trying to do so in a time period of a lot of complexity, a lot of
different unique challenges that they really didn't sign up for. So they were really great academics. They are now in this leadership role and they're trying to do in a very complex environment. And so that's what's keeping them from achieving that goal. Does that help? But like what do you think?
Dorothy Mosby (57:00.846)
Thank you for Betsy fying it.
Betsy Jordyn (57:04.286)
Okay. Just because a big part when people just you know, a little quick coaching moment, you know, people ask you about what you do and who you want to attract. You wanna be articulate about who you help, but all well mostly the problem that you solve, which is the goal that they're after and what's in the way, so that you can help people who are listening to catch a picture of like, they have that problem because it's too broad. Like you need your referral network and the people like who might be listening.
You know, they want to be able to say, you're trying to deal with that. All right, I know how to send your way. Yeah. Thank you for letting me do a little coaching moment here. so I've definitely for all of you who are listening, please check out her website. It's amazing. love the visual branding so much. so Dorothy, as you could see on her background. And and if you are interested in getting your website
Dorothy Mosby (57:36.462)
Thank you.
Betsy Jordyn (57:56.448)
launched and a credible one and one that looks amazing and you want to get it done fast, you know, and you have a beginner's mind, I'd love to help you. And if you need help getting clarity on what you do, the value of what you do and be able to create messages that connect you with the clients that you're meant to work with. I'd definitely love to help you out. Check out my website at www dot betsy jordan dot com. but don't forget Jordyn is with a Y. And if you enjoy the show, please hit subscribe so you don't miss another the next one and rate and review on an Apple if you can.
And until next time, thank you all so much for listening. And thank you so much, Dorothy, for being on the show. It's been a pleasure having you.
Dorothy Mosby (58:31.816)
thank you, Betsy.
