Betsy Jordyn (00:00.3)
Hey, do you wanna add keynote speaking to one of the things that you offer in addition to your consulting or coaching, or maybe it's a way that you wanna attract more consulting or coaching clients, but lack the clarity and confidence on exactly how to make that happen? Well, find out how to overcome that with my guest, Dr. Christina Madison on today's Consulting Matters podcast.
And welcome to the Consulting Matters podcast. This is the show for purpose-driven, transformational consultants and coaches who are ready to own the power of what they do and position themselves to the clients, the impact, the income that they're ready for. I'm your host, Betsy Jordyn, and I am both a business mentor and a brand messaging and positioning strategist. You can find out about all the things they do to help take your experiences, your strengths, your passions, and turn them into a consulting or coaching business that you and your clients love.
on my website at www.betsyJordyn.com. And don't forget Jordyn is with a Y. So today we are talking about speaking and keynote speaking. And if you've been wanting to take the stage as a speaker, but hold yourself back because you feel a little shy about it and you wanna turn that around, today's episode is for you. Today's guest is Dr. Christina Madison and I'm so excited to have her on the show. She shares how she went from being a pharmacist and an academic to where she is today.
a sought after keynote speaker with 200 plus TV appearances, multiple times on the TEDx stage, even a visit to the White House. On the show, she shares practical advice on how to take the stage with confidence, even if you're an introvert and you're not a natural performer. She also shares how to find your core message, your big idea, the purpose that drives you as a speaker and the change that you wanna see in the world. So whether you're...
wanting to use speaking as a way to get more consulting or coaching clients, or you're ready to take the stage as a paid keynote speaker, this episode is for you. So without further ado, welcome to the show, Christina.
Dr. Christina Madison (01:55.83)
It's been so lovely to see your journey over the past, probably I would say, at least the last year, I've been definitely seeing a lot more of you pop up in my LinkedIn feed, which has been so lovely to see sort of your evolution as you've created all of this new content, you've gotten this new focus, and it's just been really lovely to see your growth. And I'm very excited to be here today.
Betsy Jordyn (02:21.736)
Speaking of growth, we met like four years ago, I think at Carol Cox's Speaking Your Brand event. And I think you've landed multiple TEDx talks and so many different things. And I would love to talk to you about speaking and your journey to becoming a speaker. And then just like what I fell in love with you at Carol's event is like, you just have this wonderful presence. Like you're one of those people who are...
Like I could fill up my space and I feel like it's like, you know, like this queen champagne energy. So I want to talk about that as well.
Dr. Christina Madison (02:54.574)
You have like the best saying, I told my husband I want to put it on a t-shirt and I wrote it down after the last time we talked. You said, I'm like champagne because I bring the bubbly. And I just thought that was the best statement ever. I'm like, no one's ever described me that way. And I had to write it down because it was so good.
Betsy Jordyn (03:17.026)
Well, I feel like you are affirming me as a branding person. That's so crazy.
Dr. Christina Madison (03:21.24)
exactly why I wrote it down.
Betsy Jordyn (03:23.82)
Well, I love that, but I think for, okay, so today's episode is about just the journey to becoming a speaker. So you come from a medical background, a very technical background, and then you moved into this other place. And I know my listeners of consultants and coaches would be very curious about how do you go from really an expertise-based type of background to being on this stage and doing all of that. But I wanna make sure we're all on the same page around your background. So you could take me back in time.
Before you were a speaker, before you became this public health advocate, tell me more about your background as a pharmacist and just your basic career background.
Dr. Christina Madison (04:03.982)
Yeah, so I've been a clinical pharmacist for 22 years. I did a residency right out of school, so I graduated in 2004 and did a residency in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It was in critical care mostly and really enjoyed having the ability to do direct patient care. So the VA system is really known as being sort of the birthplace
of clinical pharmacy, which is where pharmacists do mainly disease state management and direct patient care and really are not doing the...
traditional dispensing roles, is what most people think of when they think of a pharmacist, is that we're back behind the counter counting pills, verifying prescriptions. I actually did very little of that in my career. Obviously, I had to do that when I first went to school. But when I transitioned out of my residency, actually the very first job I had was teaching at a medical school. So I moved back to my hometown. I live in and from Las Vegas and Toro University.
which has a campus in New York and a campus in Vallejo, California, opened a campus in Las Vegas. And so I was one of their first hires. The school hadn't even been open a year and they wanted to start their medical pharmacology department. And so they brought me in. I started everything from scratch, loved my job, but really missed patient care. And at the time I was only 25. So I was like, I didn't just do a residency to not.
care for patients because that was the whole idea. So I ended up working in managed care, is basically an insurance company. Absolutely hated it. Was like asked to do prior authorizations, was denying people's like HIV and cancer drugs. I was like, this is the most toxic thing ever. So I was like, OK, I got to go. So I ended up taking a job working for the College of Pharmacy that I graduated from, and I stayed there for 17 years.
Dr. Christina Madison (06:13.934)
and I was able to start clinical services at my county health department. And then I was also able to work directly with a nurse practitioner and we had a family medicine practice that catered to the LGTBQIA plus community. And we were one of the largest providers of HIV prevention and gender affirming care in the state. And so that was just an incredible experience. I've had so many amazing opportunities and I think part of it is because I'm all about the messy yes. And I say that from
One of my colleagues, Jeanette Schneider, she coined that term and really it's all about taking that leap of faith, even though you may not know all the answers. And obviously as a pharmacist, one of the things that they teach us is how to research things. So I always tell people like pharmacists can do anything, even if it's not our specialty, we have such great drug information skills that we can pretty much figure anything out. And so when it came to speaking, I had basically been practicing
years in the classroom to become a speaker and to be a subject matter expert because of all the research and all of the publishing that I had done while I was in academia. And transferring those skills, I think, was a little bit easier for me than maybe some other people because I have an entertainment background. So before I went to pharmacy school, I was a professional cheerleader and dancer.
Yeah, I had that entertainment background. So for me, it was a much easier transition because I already loved and was comfortable on stages and being on camera, but that's not common. I want to make sure that I like, phrase that in a way that, because I know that being on stage and also being on camera for some people is literally like the scariest thing for them. I also will say that I have hired coaches along the way, so I have gotten better at.
being able to synthesize very complicated topics and make them into something that's easily digestible to the public. And that is something that has been a learned skill that has taken time. I also hired a media coach when I first started out because speaking in the media and being on camera and speaking in sound bites is very different than speaking on a stage and doing a keynote.
Dr. Christina Madison (08:36.386)
that's rehearsed and practiced because you never know what you're gonna get when you're on camera. You have no idea what the journalist is gonna ask you. so it's very much, think, I feel like it's kind of akin to working in the ER, because you never know what you're gonna get. And that's where I started my career was in the ER and trauma.
Betsy Jordyn (08:56.0)
So I have so many light bulbs have gone off. Like I've just observed you from afar. And it was like, that is so interesting that she went from pharmacy to being this like big personality on stage. And it's like,
You were a cheerleader. You've been on stage all of this time. that's why we're at the workshop. you knew how like I still, every time I take a picture for real, like I just like imagine myself like, okay, put the booty out back and then, know, like chin forward. Like I picture all these things that you taught me at Carol's thing. You're showing me now.
Dr. Christina Madison (09:29.742)
Because when you look good, you feel good and you're able to perform so much better when you feel comfortable in your own skin and you know learning how to pose, learning how to you know put yourself out there so that you feel like you're being presented in their best light.
I mean, obviously that takes time to figure out like, how does your body look good? And, and I always say, you know, no one looks good straight on. don't care how thin you are. Like everybody needs to have like a little bit of a pivot so that you can see your curves and, know, even just having good posture. when I was a teenager, my mother, who was a very devout, sorority sister and was an AKA member was like,
that she wanted me to be a debutante. And at the time I was like, mom, this is silly. Like this is some old school, like Southern, like.
like I just I really was like, why do want me to become a debutante? Like who even knows what that is? Like, cause you know, in the West Coast, you don't see that as much. East Coast very much. The Cotillion, the finishing school, the whole nine yards, the being in boarding school is very common in the East Coast, but it's not in the West Coast. And I grew up in Vegas. So my mom was from Virginia and for her, this was the epitome of having her daughter being introduced to society. And so I
I fought her tooth and nail, now looking back, it is probably one of the most beneficial things that I did when I first started in my career because I knew how to stand, I knew how to present myself, I knew where the silverware was supposed to be, I knew how to put my napkin in my lap, I knew how to curtsy. for that, like, because of that, I can be in front of anyone from the janitor,
Dr. Christina Madison (11:22.966)
all the way to the Pope, you know? Like I feel comfortable in any setting because my mother was very adamant that she wanted me to get this foundation so that I could feel comfortable in any space.
Betsy Jordyn (11:36.694)
So, okay, well, first off, I think I wanna do a little bonus episode afterwards. Like maybe I'll keep you on for a couple of minutes and if we have time, we will do some posing, you know, like training for the women who are interested in this. But so I think what's interesting about your background is the advocacy work that you do now and then the speaking that you do, it's not really a disconnect from your background because you were teaching.
a lot of what you work with teaching, you were doing a lot of research, so thought leadership was a part of what you were doing anyway. And it sounds like the advocate side of you of like really bringing forward like the advocacy side, that's a huge part of what I remember as a lot of your thought leadership is that advocacy. I remember your story very clearly about what had happened to you as somebody who was being overlooked for what was going on in your body after you had your child. It's not a disconnect. I definitely want you to get into
some of the specifics of your thought leadership, but I just want to clarify that it was really just an obvious evolution. wasn't a total disconnect.
Dr. Christina Madison (12:40.238)
Of course, yeah, I would definitely agree with that assessment. I do think on the surface, if you were just to see Christina, the faculty member teaching in the classroom and doing patient care, and then now seeing me doing the wired segment that has almost a million views, having the opportunity to be on Good Morning America twice, doing two TEDxs, I would never have thought that
that would have been my trajectory. But again, going back to what I said before, all about the messy S and then turning, you know, something that could have been really awful into something positive, which was COVID. And because I had this background and expertise in public health, I was being asked all of these questions and it was just this natural progression of being put.
on camera and that a lot of those media appearances leading to some of the speaking opportunities that I got later on. And again, the foundation of that is my clinical knowledge and my expertise in my field in infectious disease and public health.
Betsy Jordyn (13:50.592)
So how did you go from teaching at the school that was in Las Vegas to what you do now? Like, how did you decide, like, I wanna go out on my own, I wanna become a speaker. How did you get from, I'm working for somebody else and I'm teaching these courses and I'm doing this advocacy work, it's part of this organization, to what you're doing now? Like, how did you decide I wanna make this shift? Was it COVID or was there something before COVID?
Dr. Christina Madison (14:16.684)
I mean, it was a couple of things, but ultimately I woke up one day and decided I didn't want to be the one that was making someone else's dreams come true and making someone else recognizable and famous and impactful. And I realized that it didn't matter how much I did, how many...
committees I was on, I was never going to be valued the way that I would if I went on my own. And I'm very grateful for the experience that I received and I'm very grateful for the opportunities I had while I was working in academia. But I ultimately felt like I had outgrown my ability to continue to progress in my professional trajectory because the university had very strict rules about
how I could show up. And part of that was the fact that they didn't want me to speak about my personal brand. They only wanted me to talk about the university. And so I was at a precipice, right? I was kind of at this point where I could do a lot more in the public eye, but I was being very limited by the fact that I had, you know, rules that I had to follow. Yeah. academic institution. And so I had to really think, you know, it was a huge leap of faith, like,
I'm not gonna say by any means that it was easy. It's still not, you know, because I have to create my own work as an entrepreneur. And, you know, it's not like going into a nine to five and knowing that you're gonna have a guaranteed paycheck every two weeks. It's a very different lifestyle. And so I got to the point where there was a couple of things that had happened. My practice site that I was at where I was doing direct patient care and where I was precepting students.
unexpectedly lost their funding and had to close. So I had no practice site. I also was having some difficulty with my employer and there was a few things that had happened and I really felt like if things didn't progress in the way that I wanted it to, that things were not going to change. And so there were multiple things that happened where it was just kind of a convergence where at that point it was either shit or get off the pot, you know?
Betsy Jordyn (16:38.754)
Yeah.
Dr. Christina Madison (16:40.398)
Excuse me. But ultimately, you know, we parted ways. I wish them well. And, you know, I gave them a two month notice so that they could find somebody to teach my classes. I even stayed on for an extra year and a half to teach when they weren't able to find someone to replace me. And yeah, that was at the end of 2023.
Betsy Jordyn (17:03.038)
see, so you were speaking before you left. This guy met you in 2022. Yeah. So you were still working for somebody else during that time period. So that's interesting. So you have an interest. So you didn't have like a straight shot of I had a job. Now I'm going to go and become a speaker. You became a speaker first. Yes. And then you left. And it was like, that's a different trajectory. OK, so then what was it that made you decide
I want to build my own personal brand and start building my, like you had a pretty tight talk at Carol's event. So when did you start working on that one and what made you decide to go down the speaker route? And then that led you into a year later to decide like, okay, this container is not flexible enough for what I want to create in my career. Tell me a little bit about what made you decide I want to even take the stage and speak about your own personal story.
Dr. Christina Madison (18:00.074)
a couple of things that happened. I was on the board of a nonprofit and I went to this conference and the speaker was so impactful and he talked about how, you know, he had written a book and he had done a TEDx and all of these things and I ended up networking and meeting some people and one of the people that I met was the curator for TEDx Reno.
And so I talked with her and I said, know, it's definitely something on my bucket list. I would really love to do this someday. And she was like, well then come, just I'm going to invite you come and see a TEDx. Like you got to see one first to see if this is what you really want to do. And so that was in 2020. And it was in February. This was the last time I was on a plane before the world shut down.
and so I met the curator. met all the organizers. I spoke to some of the other speakers because there was a meet and greet and I just was like, my gosh, this is my happy place. Like I want to do this. And so I kept in touch with them because obviously the world shut down and nothing was in person. And, you know, fast forward to two years later. And they had applications open for Tedx Reno. So I contacted my friend who was no longer the,
the curator, but she was still very involved with the 10X Reno organization. And then I reached out to Carol and I said, Carol, you know, cause I was part of the speaker Academy, just like you were. And, and I said, you know, I really want to do this. Can you help me? And so I, you know, as the kids say, no, shoot my shot.
And I submitted my application and it was accepted. And so then I was like, oh shoot, I really need to work on this. And so worked with, you know, with Carol, worked with Katie, people who I loved and respected that I knew were amazing on stage. And I did my TEDx, my first one in 2022, in May of 2022. And then, you know, got so many amazing opportunities after that. Got invited to the White House, got...
Dr. Christina Madison (20:18.414)
asked to do segment on Good Morning America. And then the opportunity to do a second TEDx here in my hometown in Las Vegas came up last year. And at that time I hadn't really talked really publicly other than what you saw about my birth related trauma, the fact that my aunt passed away at 45 from.
stage four breast cancer after not having any preventative screenings. And so for me, it just, changed the way that I felt about healthcare and it changed the way I felt about how I was getting my messaging out. And I knew that me being in a classroom was not big enough. can, I could impact the next generation of healthcare professionals, but I didn't feel like it was enough to really make a dent, especially in communities of color.
So that's why I started showing up on camera. That's why I started engaging with the media. And that's why I started doing where speaking and infusing my own personal story because I understood the power of storytelling and why that is what moves the needle and not necessarily data and research.
Betsy Jordyn (21:24.056)
So what came first then? Was it like, really want to be a speaker and this is my happy place, or I have this burning message and I need to get this message out, or were they both there at the same time?
Dr. Christina Madison (21:35.638)
Simultaneous because again, you know the my birth related trauma that had happened in 2018 and I was I was still recovering and you know figuring out like what I wanted to do and understanding that you know my the security that I had with my very posh academic job was there but I wanted something more and I knew if if not now when and if not who
why not me? You know, and so that was where that's where I had that fork in the road where I was like, okay, what do I do next? How do I, how do I, how do I do the thing that I want to do without upsetting my employer and still making an impact? And the only way forward that I saw was making me my employer.
Betsy Jordyn (22:31.158)
Right. It feels like I
Dr. Christina Madison (22:34.593)
Freely.
Betsy Jordyn (22:36.96)
It's interesting hearing you tell your story, like how it's sitting with me. It doesn't feel like it was a decision. It feels like it was a calling. It's like you had a calling around this message and that you were supposed to be the, you had the story, you had the gifting, and you had this passion and they all converge and you had this calling. And it sounds like it was more like, I say yes to this call to adventure or do I say no? But it seems like the calling,
Like I have to speak up about this. Like I have this personal trauma. see this, you have all this advocacy work from what you had before, plus being a woman of color and seeing the disparities in the healthcare system. It's like, I must speak. I don't have a choice. And this container. That's what I'm sensing. I don't know if I got that part right, but I'm hearing there was a calling to the stage and a calling with this message and they all just coalesce together.
Dr. Christina Madison (23:30.734)
100%. I would agree with that. Absolutely. Especially when it came to people in my community, because during COVID, there was so much misinformation. And I still to this day have people come up to me and say, you know, I was really on the fence about that vaccine, but then I saw you on TV and I saw you talking about it. And it really helped me to change my mind. And here's the thing, I'm not
trying to indoctrinate people. I'm not trying to make people come to my side. All I want is for people to have all of the facts in order to make an informed decisions for themselves, their families, and their communities. Because when we think about public health, it is about the health of the many, not about the health of the one. And so all of these people who are like, well, it's my own personal choice. Well, actually it's not. Because when we don't have vaccination rates that are what we call herd
community immunity, it impacts everyone. So we all have to do our part in order to continue to keep our communities healthy. And when we say these personal objections, it's like, okay, I get it. I understand that you feel like this is your personal choice, but I want you to understand that your personal choice impacts a lot of people. And especially I think about that right now, because we're currently in the middle of a measles outbreak.
People are like, well, if measles was such a big deal, how come we hadn't heard about it before? Because people were being vaccinated. It's one of those most contagious infections known to man. It stays around for two hours in the room after the person leaves. I mean, it's just absurd that we're living in, you know, the year of our Lord, 2026, and we're in the middle of a measles outbreak. Like it's insanity.
Betsy Jordyn (25:22.334)
There's many things that we're dealing with in 2026 that you're just like, are we serious? I'm like, can I? And include, please, I would love to get off this timeline. Like there's so many, saw something on the, on some of the comedians had like, imagine if you were like, somebody spoke, you, you were in a coma in like 2011 and you woke up to today's news. You'd be like, Nope.
Dr. Christina Madison (25:29.282)
Can I get off this timeline?
Dr. Christina Madison (25:44.107)
Nope. Nope.
Betsy Jordyn (25:45.854)
What I love about what you have though is like everything that you talk about is grounded. Like it is grounded in your facts and it's grounded in your research, but it's packaged in your personality. And I think that that's what's a unique thing about it. And I think for a lot of us, it's like, think that we have to choose. Like I feel like what I love about Carol as it relates to being a speaking coach. And I told her this the other day, it's like.
she takes care of the sizzle and the steak, you know, like, but I've seen other speaking coaches that are all about the sizzle. You know, it's all about like, how do you modulate your voice and, know, or how do you command the stage? And, you know, Carol's really focused on both sides, like tell a compelling story, but also have it grounded, you know, in your big idea that you can universalize, you know, and in your, and in your story, but you have like your, when you talk about these things, it's grounded in facts, research, data.
you know, but you're not like sitting there saying statistically, you know, this is how many, you know, like you're not talking that way. You're brought in in your personality. I think that that's a really important thing is I think for some people who are consultants and coaches is like, well, do I have to give up like my expertise in order to come in the stage? Or what if I'm not, or what if I'm not naturally like, I don't have an entertainment background, but I want to take the stage. Like, what would you suggest to that person?
Dr. Christina Madison (27:03.554)
take a dance class and do some improv.
Betsy Jordyn (27:06.734)
that's a nice.
Dr. Christina Madison (27:08.494)
because that's really gonna help you to feel more comfortable in your body. I honestly feel like that's probably one of the things that's helped me most is my dance background because I feel comfortable moving on a stage. I feel comfortable making sure that I'm centering myself. I feel comfortable projecting my voice because I was on stages from the time I was three years old and I think you really gotta know your body.
Part of why I think sometimes it's really challenging for people to speak publicly, especially in large spaces, is because they don't feel comfortable in their own bodies.
Betsy Jordyn (27:46.945)
Right.
Dr. Christina Madison (27:48.224)
And if you don't feel comfortable, your audience is gonna swift, they're gonna sniff that like right away. So I think doing things where, we did improv, like when we did our speaker, we did improv and it was fantastic. And I was like, wow, I should have started doing this a long time ago. Cause one of the things that they don't teach us about the speaking business is that things go wrong all the time, all the time.
And so you have to improvise, which is basically what improv is. It's yes and it's how do I answer this question in the moment? And that's what speaking is. It's a lot of figuring it out on the fly because your AV is undoubtedly gonna have a glitch. Your mic is probably gonna, you know, maybe the volume may not be high enough.
You may get there and you think that you're going to have a lavalier mic and you're told last minute, no, you have to use a handheld mic. So we have to improvise all the time. And what you're being paid for is not just to bring a message, but to also entertain the audience and leave them wanting more. Leaving them with a message.
that they can engage on and a call to action that is meaningful and impactful because that conference organizer wants to hear, my gosh, that was the best keynote. my gosh, you should bring that person back. my gosh, I learned so much. my gosh, this has been the best conference. And they don't know exactly why, but you leave them with this feeling.
that they have somehow learned and became a better person after listening to you.
Betsy Jordyn (29:45.42)
So it sounds like that there's like two parallel paths to work on. And I wanna ask, I wanna continue to follow up on this one, then I ask you about the other part of the and like the message and really getting that straight. Is it sounds like that there's something about like the stage presence, the entertainment value, being comfortable in your skin. Would you say definitively, is this a learnable skill or is that something that you're naturally like come into this world with?
Dr. Christina Madison (30:09.27)
It's definitely learnable. It's definitely teachable, it's learnable. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. So I think another thing that I've learned through this timeframe is you will figure out when your audience reacts to you, what things you should keep and what things you should drop. So when you're getting those oohs and ahs and the aha moments in the crowd,
That is your sign to keep that in your speech.
Betsy Jordyn (30:43.118)
So how do you stay in a gym,
Dr. Christina Madison (30:45.646)
Pay attention to that and that emotion that you get, that energy that you get from the crowd.
Betsy Jordyn (30:51.854)
But before we get to that part, cause that's like somewhere like I'm already up on the stage. Like I'm talking to like, like people who are like, I don't know. Like, like when I, when Carol did the, opening exercise, she's like, you know, when did you know you were supposed to be on the stage? I'm like, never. Like I was like this, like when I was little, like, like I know people don't believe this about me. I was an, I was a total introvert when I was a child and you could, you all probably saw that in the group in a way that nobody else would see it.
Like on my report cards when I was like really little, like they would, the teachers would write to my parents like, does Betsy talk? Is she mute? Like they were worried about. I know, cause like I didn't talk. was like, I was very, like a very much an introverted, introverted child. Like I wasn't, I was, you know, so the idea of like taking the stage, like there's like a learning curve around like, it's not even just like being in my body, but being seen, you know, like, like, cause I, I'm good at facilitation. I'm a great facilitator. I could command a room of executives, but that's because there is no spotlight on me.
You know, it's all on the audience and I'm just like there to facilitate. So I could do that. But if you ask me to tell my story, like that's a growth edge for me or growth opportunity. And that's where I was like, I was riveted to you. was like, my gosh, like I know where I, I just want to like just 1 % because I would love to be able to take up like that kind of space. talk to, and I'm not, I know my clients are a lot like me. Like none of us, like a lot of us are not natural. So talk to, talk to my clients via me.
around like, what would it look like for me to feel like I could be on a stage and feel comfortable on the stage? We'll talk about the message in a second, but just like in my presence and my body, having the spotlight on me, being vulnerable, sharing stories about myself, even expecting people to laugh at what I have to say, you know, rather than I'm just of service, because we're all of service, we'll be behind the scenes, you know, what do you all want to say? Let everybody else talk, I'll just like scribble notes on the flow chart, you know? So talk to my...
talk to all my people who are just like me through me by giving some practical advice.
Dr. Christina Madison (32:51.342)
I would say start small. think about ways that you can maybe organize between like say you have a group of friends that you want to try some of your content out on. Invite them over, have some snacks, have some beverages and just say, hey, know, I'm thinking about doing a talk on this topic. Would you guys?
be okay with listening to me. You make it fun, making it something that doesn't seem so high stakes, I think will really help. So using that feedback that you get from a support system, so not people that are outside of your circle, but people inside your circle is gonna be really helpful. The other thing too is actively telling people that you want to speak.
because if you don't tell people, they're not gonna know. And taking those opportunities to maybe do unpaid speaking for the experience and then really honing your craft and then using clips and those kinds of things, because you wanna always make sure that you video yourself so that you can work on things.
and you can see, there a tell? Is there something that I do regularly? Is there something that I do to comfort myself on stage that may be distracting from the message that I'm trying to say? And watch yourself. And I know sometimes people are like, it's cringe, but really think about it. And every time you have an opportunity to speak, see if you can have somebody record it. And then that way you can learn from your growth.
and learn ways that you can continue to improve your speaking skills. I work very closely with my National Speaker Association chapter. We are very active chapter. there's a once a month we have a meeting and so there's a lot of opportunity for you to
Dr. Christina Madison (34:52.065)
bring your message to people who speak professionally for a living and to get their honest opinion. They do a lot of open mic nights. I would also recommend things like Toastmasters. Those are great places for you to start in a smaller venue to really hone your craft, start feeling comfortable in your own skin and comfortable with your messaging, and then expand if you don't have that entertainment background. Because it is a learned skill.
and it is something that you can continue to improve, but you don't do that by doing one talk. You have to do a lot and you have to keep going and continue to improve. And when you get that first audience reaction and when you get that first person that comes up to you after your talk and says, my gosh, I felt like you were talking just to me. That's it, that you're gonna be hooked. You're gonna be like, okay, I gotta do this for the rest of my life.
Betsy Jordyn (35:49.646)
Okay, so let me see if I understand your roadmap to building more of the speaking side. It seems like step one is connect with your body and connect in the movement in terms of taking some dance classes, taking some improv classes. So that will help you get into your body and be able to know how to fill up the stage in a way. Step two then is start with the next levels, like get your friends together. People are supportive in a very safe environment.
And like, just try out, can I engage this supportive group of people? Step three, join something like National Speakers Association or Toastmasters and in a less risky, yeah, a lower stakes environment. Like, just try, you know, start honing your craft. And then step four is then start to let people know.
Dr. Christina Madison (36:34.552)
Hi, stay.
Betsy Jordyn (36:44.428)
that this is something that you wanna do and then maybe take something that's a little bit more high visibility, try that and then see how that goes and then go from there. But that seems to be the path to getting into the speaker side and building the speaker skills. And imagine that we would probably add in, join stuff like what Carol offers to help.
Dr. Christina Madison (37:03.692)
I mean, there are definitely a lot of.
academies and boot camps and masterminds. It's what makes you feel good. You know, it's who you feel like are people that you relate to and are your tribe. You want to be around like minded people. I always talk about the five, you know, the rule of five and that, know, you really are the five people that you spend the most time with. And so if you're spending your time with people who don't desire to do big things and are not entrepreneurs and are not business
It's gonna be much more difficult for you to advance yourself in your career because you don't have you're not surrounding yourself with other people who are wanting the same thing and so I always say like surround yourself with people who you want to be like or you would like to emulate and So that's what I did. I wanted to do a TEDx So I started surrounding myself with people who had done TEDx's or were involved with TEDx and Interestingly enough I met
Carol because of someone else who I had met during a mastermind. So it was a mastermind and we were all pharmacists and she had taken some of Carol's classes and I was like, that's interesting. And so then I looked her up and then I had a lovely conversation with her over the phone. I really felt like we connected. And then that's, you know, how I ended up as part of, you know, the same cohort with you and Katie.
And it was just so incredible. And I just felt so nurtured. The other thing too is because it is very specific to women, I did feel like it was a very safe space. That may not be the same for everyone, but I do feel that that was very helpful for me because I do think that there are some needs that are different for women speakers than for folks who are either male presenting or identify as male.
Dr. Christina Madison (38:58.54)
because even just the way you present on stage is different. I think about Mel Robbins when she talks about how she was on one of her biggest stages when she first started talking right after her TEDx blew up online and she was in this beautiful dress, but the dress was see-through and she was on a Jumbotron. And she said that obviously she threw that dress away right away.
But like the fact that another female speaker came up to her and said something to her after, she was like, my gosh, what if nobody had said anything to me? I would have kept wearing that same dress, you know? And so I do think that the needs of a woman speaker are slightly different. And so, you know, I use that example just to say, you know, a guy is not gonna be like, I don't care if my pants are see-through on stage. No, you're gonna care.
Betsy Jordyn (39:47.864)
So, okay, so I'm gonna amend your roadmap then is step one is figure out how to get into your body with dance classes and improv. Step two is start small with your friends in lower stake environments and try that out. Step three is maybe do other speeches and opportunities that are also still low stakes like the Toastmasters or the National Speakers Association and then add local chapter.
then the next step is like, if you decide that this is something that you do wanna pursue, because maybe you'll go through that process and decide that's not, but if you do, then find yourself a community of people who are like you, who want to become speakers in the same way that you do and have that same values, whatever the value system might be. So if you're a woman speaker, it is good to be, I felt like it would have been a totally different experience at Carol's event if it wasn't all women.
You know, so find that, invest in your development from that standpoint. And then you go out and you do opportunities, maybe for free, videotape yourself, use it as an opportunity. Like, sure, I'll get in front of new people. I'll try out my skills, see how the audience does things. And then when you get all of that situated, then you can move for the more paid keynote speaking opportunities and move down that path. So that's the path. That's what I'm understanding is the roadmap to becoming a speaker.
in general, did I get that right?
Dr. Christina Madison (41:14.314)
Yes, and this is why you are so good at systems, my dear.
Betsy Jordyn (41:17.506)
Thank you. right, let's hit the other side because a big part of being a thought leader is having a message and something and a story to tell. So talk about the process of you really honing your message, what you wanted to be known for, what kind of issues and speeches you wanted to get. Like, let's talk about the content of your thought leadership that's underneath and driving the passion behind all of this.
So I don't think you just want to be on the stage. You would have still stayed a cheerleader. Like it seems like you have.
Dr. Christina Madison (41:49.678)
I would have continued to just be in entertainment and yeah, versus wanting to, you
Betsy Jordyn (41:56.951)
changed the
Dr. Christina Madison (41:58.734)
a community and to have a message. Part of it was because I truly felt like I wanted to give back to my community and I saw the response that I got from showing up on my local media stations and doing legacy media. So that was the first thing that kind of like gave me the, uh-huh, I think that I can do this. And then I really think that, you know, obviously having
you know, gone through my birth related trauma, seeing sort of
Betsy Jordyn (42:30.124)
Now, people don't know about that. Like, I know about the story. I got to see it. You might need some context about this.
Dr. Christina Madison (42:35.822)
Yeah, I had my second child in 2018 and seven weeks after the birth of my second child, I was denied care. And by the time I was finally believed and seen, I was in full sepsis and almost died. So at the time, my poor husband would have been stuck alone with a seven week old and an under two year old because my kids are 22 months apart. And so it was.
It was a very eye-opening experience because even as a healthcare professional, I felt like I knew how to advocate for myself. But in that moment, I was not being seen as a colleague. I was being seen as a Black woman and that somehow I was not able to know what my body was doing or that my pain was not.
as severe and that it shouldn't be taken seriously. And the only difference between the first time I was seen in the ER, which was when I was denied care and I was told to go home and rest because I had two little kids at home and that was why I somehow was having these issues. It was the first person who saw me was a white doctor and the person who saw me the second time was a South Asian male who looked like me.
and he believed me. And so I don't know what would have happened if I had gotten a different provider, but ultimately, you know, that man saved my life because if I had been sent home again, I likely would have died because the sepsis was just taking over my whole body. And it was really sad. And so I felt obviously embarrassed because I blamed myself. I thought,
Surely this is something I did. Surely this is something that I must have, you know, said something to them to make them treat me this way.
Dr. Christina Madison (44:34.606)
But ultimately what I figured out was no, this is just the healthcare system. And unfortunately, because of the fact that modern obstetrician and gynecology was built on the backs of enslaved women and torture of enslaved women in this country, we still have a healthcare system that treats black women differently when it comes to matters of maternal health.
Betsy Jordyn (44:57.602)
That's heartbreaking. Like, I'm so, like that's heartbreaking.
Dr. Christina Madison (45:02.654)
Yeah, I mean, it really changed my perspective because at that point in time, I had not had a negative experience with the health care system. I had always felt like I was being treated equally. And at that point, it did not happen. And it was, it was really scary to feel like you were in a room and you were speaking, but no one was hearing you. I don't know if that's ever happened to you before, or if people were speaking at like around you, but not at you.
So like, you my husband is Caucasian. And so they were talking to my husband, but they weren't talking to me. And I was like, am I invisible? Like what's happening? It was, it was such an odd experience.
Betsy Jordyn (45:43.598)
I think about this, like, you you watch like medical shows, like watching The Pit and, you know, and I think about like, I wonder what Christina would have to say about, you know, like these different people who are being overlooked. I wanna, I still wanna zero in on how this came a message, but I just, do have a, just a question about your content and then I will get, we could get back to the speaking part of it. What, why would somebody not listen?
Like what's the bias? if somebody, just, I don't understand if a patient is sitting in front of you and they're saying, I'm struggling with this. Why would they not take you seriously? Like why would they dismiss, what's the bias that's there? That they're different from you?
Dr. Christina Madison (46:23.086)
bias that first of all that in particular black women do not experience pain the same way that we're somehow able to tolerate more pain. And so the first thing is that they assumed that I was drug seeking, that I was there because I was trying to get pain medication.
you know, because of course I'm a person of color. So of course, why wouldn't I want, you know, to take substances? That's the thought process. So that's number one. The second is, is that because I had recently had a baby that this was more related to a, you know, maternal health issue and not that I somehow was experiencing sepsis. And so there was a lot of like, if then, and it was a lot like, so
instead of doing tests, they just were like, you're probably just tired. You just had a baby. You your pain, like you need to go back to your OB. He can, you know, prescribe something. And it was very much a very dismissive environment. And I think part of that is because the health, the way that our current medical education system is structured is that there are these.
implicit biases around brown and black patients and that they somehow are medication seeking and that they do not have positive intent and that they're somehow trying to trick the system and that we're somehow untrustworthy, which in this instance is not the case. And so that is unfortunately embedded into the way that our health medical system is taught.
And there's actually, when we look at some of the teachings, they specifically say that black and brown people do not experience pain at the same level, that black and brown skin is tougher, that we are more likely to have request pain medication. So there's all these like implicit biases that basically converged. And it didn't matter what I said because
Dr. Christina Madison (48:38.498)
they were still looking at a black woman. And so they didn't believe anything because they just went back to that default of, this is how black patients are. this is how black patients' bodies work. And they didn't listen to me. They just went back to that old, know, biases of thinking about, you know, how patients that look like me present.
Betsy Jordyn (49:02.51)
And if they didn't listen to you with your medical background and your academic background, how much are they not listening to women without this type of background? if they're not listening to you, they're so, so it sounds like though the advocacy side had been there before your personal story. And it seems like, did this story sort of like galvanize you and like, where did like a gal
Dr. Christina Madison (49:26.41)
Of course. stories of people being mistreated in the healthcare system and I was like, that can't be true. Like I would, as a provider and as somebody who, you know, wants to, you know, help people, there's no way that someone would be turned away or, you know, if they saw that they had, you know, needle marks on their arm, that they were just automatically assumed that they're an IV drug user versus the fact that maybe they, you know, have been frequently admitted to the hospital because they're, you know, they're
ill or they have problems with their kidneys or, you there's so many different explanations, but the challenges is that, you know, we often jump to conclusions before truly understanding what would bring somebody to the point where they would require acute care. And so.
The reason why I love working in public health is because I'm trying to prevent that from happening because we know that when you go into the emergency room, if you look a certain way, if you're dressed a certain way, you are not treated the same way as someone else who doesn't look like you. And so I was, I went to a black women in medicine conference last year called the Nexus conference, and they had this huge campaign around like the doctor will see you now. And it was all of these women and people of color that were dressed in
extremely nice outfits in a hospital. And I thought that's so interesting. But really what the message was is that if we do not look a certain way, we are not treated well. And so even in our worst condition, we're still meant to come in in our, you know, beautiful suits and ties, because otherwise we're not going to be treated seriously. I can't go to the hospital in sweats because if I do, I'm going to be considered, you know, drug seeking.
Right?
Betsy Jordyn (51:13.006)
Do you feel like you're without your personal story? Do you think that you'd be the speaker that you are now with the passion and the fierceness or do you feel like what do you think the impact would be? Is if you stayed on the advocacy path and then became a speaker without your personal story, do you feel like you'd wind up being with the same, the same level, same passionate speaker? Or do you feel like your personal story just changed?
Dr. Christina Madison (51:35.682)
Definitely think the personal story helps, but even before that I had patient stories that I would tell of instances where folks were not believed and the consequences of that or being dismissed as a black woman asking for HIV prevention and then being told, well, you don't need that.
you only, you you have relationships with men. You know, so what are the consequences of when we dismiss our patients and we don't fully hear them? And so I do think that my personal story obviously helps, but I do think that I would still be doing this work even if that hadn't happened to me.
Betsy Jordyn (52:13.07)
So it seems like on the side of figuring out what your message should be is it sounds like there should be, it seems like that the, like I keep thinking of Popeye when you keep talking about it, you know, like where Popeye has like these moments where it's like, you know, that's all I can't stand, I can't stand no more, you know, and then he like takes his thing and it's like, it seems like it's like pay attention to the Popeye moments, like the things that drive you nuts. And it's like the stories that you hear and it's like, my God, this shouldn't be this way.
like seems like those are the stories like whatever your core story is in your message is it's all seated in the fact of like the things that drive you crazy like it shouldn't be this way like people should not be dismissed if they go into healthcare like healthcare, it sounds like your controlling idea or your thought leadership idea is healthcare is supposed to serve everybody not I some people supposed to be for everybody you know everybody
Dr. Christina Madison (53:01.454)
But healthcare is a right, like it's a human right, it's not something that's optional.
Betsy Jordyn (53:07.148)
Like I hear on both sides is like people, you all people should be able to go get, you know, healthcare and people without the biases people should be listened to. But also at the same time, the health system is supposed to serve like our health decisions, like the herd mentality around the vaccines. Like it should be supportive in a more inclusive kind of healthcare kind of world that we should be in. But it seems like that's always been like no matter what got focused in your speaking.
it seems like the seeds have been there. So if you were gonna suggest to people perhaps of like, what should I talk about? It seems like it's not like head knowledge of what you know, it's like those stories of like, what drives you crazy that you feel like the world should be different. It shouldn't be this way. That seems to be like what you should talk about. Cause I'm not hearing you talk about like, here's the best practices on public health advocacy. you're not doing it that way.
Dr. Christina Madison (54:00.206)
I'll pick up that as well, but I do bring in my own personal story.
Betsy Jordyn (54:05.536)
and the other stories of the other people. Like it seems like it's like, no, this belief, you know, not the facts and data. It's like this, they support it, but it's like the fuel is like, it shouldn't be this way. Healthcare is broken and somebody needs to speak out about it. And I need to, it's not equitable for everybody. And I need to say something about it. Seems like what, that's what I'm getting gathering from it. I don't know if I got that right. We've talked about a lot of different things. Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and all your insight.
Dr. Christina Madison (54:28.279)
You dead.
Betsy Jordyn (54:33.984)
Is there anything else that you wanna tell me about your journey to becoming a public health advocate and a speaker to the extent that you are and I'm just not asking you the right question?
Dr. Christina Madison (54:44.268)
No, you've asked me some incredible questions and I greatly appreciate your review of what I was speaking because I always love a good summary. That is definitely the retired recovering academician in me. I will say that we have to make our own opportunity. And so if you really want to do something,
try to find people who are doing what or something similar that you are doing and talk to them, ask them about their journey, ask them what it took for them to get to where they were. Because there's a lot of people who've spent 15 years to become an overnight success. And it looks like they're on top of the world, but you should never compare your start to someone else's finish. And just remember that we continue to grow, we continue to get better.
And if you center yourself on your passion and helping people and doing things for the good of others, you can never go wrong.
Betsy Jordyn (55:49.484)
That's beautiful. Great way to wrap this up. Where can people get ahold of you?
Dr. Christina Madison (55:54.578)
I am on all of your favorite social media channels. At the Public Health Pharmacist is my handle on pretty much all of the platforms. But LinkedIn is probably the quickest way to get a hold of me. And then I also have a website. It's the publichealthpharmacist.com. And then if you're interested in finding out more about my other businesses, I have an accessories brand called the Fashionable Pharmacist.
the PR arm of my business which is called Press and Presence.
Betsy Jordyn (56:29.646)
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. This has been a treat. I know I could talk to you forever. You have so much wisdom, so much insight. I'm so grateful for your time.
Dr. Christina Madison (56:39.278)
Absolutely, and Betsy, please don't be a stranger.
Betsy Jordyn (56:42.422)
Of course. Thank you so much for being on the show. For those of you who are tuning in, what a powerful conversation. Definitely check out Christina's website and all the things that she's got going on. And until next time, thank you so much for listening.
