Betsy Jordyn (00:00.898)
Want to know how to start your own consulting or coaching business right the first time? Without any false start, no expensive trial and error. Find out how with my guest and client Sarah Guttman on today's Consulting Matters podcast.
Betsy Jordyn (00:20.278)
And welcome to the Consulting Matters podcast. This is the show for purpose-driven consultants and coaches who are ready to own the power of what they do and position themselves for greater impact and income. I'm of course your host, Betsy Jordyn, and I am both a business mentor and a brand positioning and messaging strategist. So you can learn about all the things I do to help my clients turn their expertise into a clear and compelling brand that resonates with the exact right clients on my website at betsyJordyn.com.
Today we're getting into what it actually looks like to seamlessly step out of your leadership career and into consulting business ownership. Instead of what a lot of us do, myself included. So this is the familiar story and this is how it goes. So we instantly get some clients through our network and then we decide, you know what, I'm in business, let me throw up a website. We find more established consultants and coaches to subcontract with and voila, we are in business. And this works great until it doesn't.
The referral network all of a sudden dries up. The subcontracting feels like you're building somebody else's brand and the DIY website is just embarrassing. It looks like an online resume. And worst of all, we sort of hit this point where we realized, you know what, I started my business for reasons that are so much bigger than this hit or miss thing that I'm experiencing. I want more control over my career, my impact and earning potential. So can you relate to this? Because that's what my experience was like. But my client, Sarah,
That is not her experience. She avoided all of this. And that's why I'm so excited to have her as my guest on today's Sarah and I connected last September when she joined my impact and income accelerator. And her goal at that time was to use it as a low cost probe to decide like, hey, do I really want to start my own consulting business? And through the process, she decided, yes, absolutely. This is the right direction. So we got to work on our brand positioning strategy, her website design.
I even got to be there in person to help her direct her photo shoot for her website photos. And so she has so much to share about her own journey into business ownership. And she's gonna share with you why it was super important for her to set herself up as a strategic partner from the get-go. She's gonna give you some insight into how she dealt with her own self-doubt that we all deal with, and why it was really important to her to avoid expensive trial and error, and how that became her mantra on why she invested in her business development upfront. So without further ado,
Betsy Jordyn (02:42.422)
Welcome to the show, Sarah.
Sara Guttman (02:44.768)
It's great to be here. Thanks, Betsy.
Betsy Jordyn (02:47.192)
Well, I knew when we first started working together, you know, with your DJ background, that there was no chance that you were not gonna be on my podcast. But now you've gone through the whole process with me from just initial, dipping your toe in the water to say, hmm, I wonder if this consulting business is right for me, all the way to where we are at now, finally launching your business. I'm super excited about that. But I really wanna dive into your journey. Like, how do you got from here to there?
And I know so many people are gonna benefit from it, but I'd love for you to just kind of ground us before we get into your specific journey and your consulting business ownership transition from your leadership job. Like tell me a little bit more about your career. So you were a DJ, you were a event and rentals director for a while. You have an interesting background. Like how did you, tell me about your background and then we'll get into your business.
Sara Guttman (03:39.79)
So I got into radio in college and loved that, worked for WNRN, New Rock Now, or volunteered, I should say. Work involves payment, but I was paid probably in free CDs at the time. And then continued to work in radio and then sort of leveraged that and transferred that knowledge into voiceover work. And I managed some voiceover studios in New York.
And then I lived on the West Coast and then now I'm here in Colorado and I pivoted from, started a family and that changes a lot of things in life. And so I pivoted from the voiceover work into working at a community center and becoming the event and rental director and managing venues and spaces, which translated venue, know, with managing a voiceover studio, there's inventory.
There's people, know, there's lot to keep track of. There are clients, there's invoicing and tours. so all of that translated to working at a community center for almost 10 years as the event and rental director.
Betsy Jordyn (04:51.596)
So that's so interesting, but I think you are clarifying for a lot of people what happens is like you might have this passion type of career that you're going after and then practicalities happen, but then you still end up in a very fulfilling career that used a very different set of circumstances, or not different circumstances, just different skill sets.
But for those who are listening and who are like wondering like what do mean by community organization? Is it like a nonprofit? Is it like a rec center? Like what do you mean by a community organization? And what do you mean by dealing with their events?
Sara Guttman (05:25.112)
Sure, so I worked at the Boulder Jewish Community Center, is a, it's open to everyone. It's not a religious organization. It's a cultural and educational destination. So as you might think of a YMCA, know, a lot of people go there to exercise or play hockey or attend a Lamaze class if Lamaze is still a thing, but some sort of community class. The Jewish Community Center, if you don't have one in...
your town or city, it's same thing. It provides community services and there's also an early childhood center. And in the case of the Boulder JCC, there is premier event space. And so I was in charge of giving tours of the space for yoga retreats, nonprofit galas, weddings, mitzvahs, any kind of family life cycle events, corporate events. We held lots of corporate events as well.
So it was just premier event space with Good Parking, which is a big deal, and in beautiful Boulder, Colorado.
Betsy Jordyn (06:30.478)
So a community center is not necessarily connected to a religious organization. It could be anything that just serves a community of some kind. So seems like it's an organization that has like a physical asset, like a physical space that they use, that they bring together people from a community. That's what the type of organization you worked in.
Sara Guttman (06:48.918)
Yeah, so another example would be like an Elks Lodge or, exactly.
Betsy Jordyn (06:55.182)
So in our conversations about your branding, there's a lot of things that we talked about when we looked at your expertise. And a couple episodes ago, I talked about the three different types of expertise. There's your formal expertise, there's the applied, and then there's your school of hard knocks. And what I defined applied is that the way that you approached your work, that it wasn't necessarily in your job description, but the approach to your work really created a different type of expertise. it sounds like in our work together, it sounds like you had this
unique applied expertise because of the way you approach that role, where it seems like other people sort of treated it as facilities, you had a different vision. Can you paint a little bit of a picture of kind of like that applied expertise that you developed at the Boulder JCC?
Sara Guttman (07:40.47)
So when I first started there, I thought I would mainly be coordinating, just sort of facilitating as events came in or inquiries came in, I would process almost. sounds so mechanical, but process the event. And what I soon realized was it was so much more than that, that people were making new memories in this building and it was having a positive impact.
on the community at large. And one person who visited the building for a meeting in the boardroom on the second floor on a Wednesday afternoon, of a, I don't want to say ho hum, but it wasn't one of these large Saturday night events with full catering and DJ. So it was just a Wednesday afternoon. hosted a lot of events like that. That person was feeling the impact and said, the JCC has become an address of consequence in this community because of all of the rentals and all the
events in addition to the J.C. Sienz own programming, which you could call the internal programming, you know, the offerings of the actual community center. The rentals, the external events, which I oversaw, were having such an impact in the community at large. that off the cuff comment by this visitor to the building stuck with me and had to this day, obviously, and it was from years ago.
Betsy Jordyn (09:06.926)
So it was like you caught a vision. Sounds like, so you're kind of like thinking like, all right, it's kind of at this level. And then something happened that was like, wow, I could do something more. This is a bigger thing that I thought it was. So when did you realize, I think that this is something big. Was it that insight that later on made you decide, I think I might want to start my own consulting business and bring this to other people? Or was it something else that made you think, I think I might want to start my own consulting business? When did you start that process where it's like, I think I want to do my own thing?
Sara Guttman (09:37.134)
It was, well, can say, I feel like that was two questions a little bit. So it started to just, it was a slow build in my brain, the impact that a rentals department at a community center, be it a museum, a cultural center, whatever it may be, in my case, it was a community center, can have. And when we started hosting funerals and celebrations of life, that also really, for all denominations, including non-denominational.
that started to resonate with me and I started to feel an even stronger sense of purpose. And that this job is, yes, it's a job, it pays bills, this is very important. A core function of a job is to pay your bills. But it started to be more than that for me as all these different types of events came through the building.
and all these different walks of life and people just having, I could see their lives, for the most part, improved by the space, know, shapes connection. And I was witnessing all these connections between humans happening and it improving their lives. And all of that felt very inspiring to me. And then as far as that pivot or where did the seed come from to start.
consulting business, it came from people asking me for advice. Both within the Boulder community and within the JCC community that saying, we heard you have a really smooth operation, know, a very successful and effective rentals department at the Boulder JCC. Could I pick your ear? Could I ask you some questions? And so that's where the seed came from.
Betsy Jordyn (11:24.866)
So it's interesting is that you, sounds like you were an entrepreneur before you even became an entrepreneur, is that you saw something in your job that was possible that maybe other people in a similar job didn't see. And you sought to create something of meaning even within your role. And then when people started asking, obviously that what led you to think about something else, but it sounds like you have this entrepreneurial kind of mindset.
I don't know if that's accurate, but that's kind what I'm hearing between the lines is that you saw into the job what others don't typically see into the job.
Sara Guttman (11:58.712)
Well, I've had independent contractor income in my life. I have not had any other businesses except for massively successful keychain business in elementary school. I sold lots of keychains that I made myself. You could choose the length, choose different colors. But yeah, so was a little, I'm going to say yes, I think you're right. But I will say I had to get there in my own thinking that that wasn't my own.
narrative review of myself that I'm fine being an employee. I have been very fortunate in my life to have excellent supervisors and colleagues and I've had a very pleasant experience as an employee. So this wasn't a running from something for me that I didn't want that. So what's the alternative? Start my own business. Happy being an employee. But it was more that I also was curious and wanting to
something that didn't exist out there yet. And I will say in my career, I have co-created a lot of positions that didn't previously exist. So in that sense, sure.
Betsy Jordyn (13:07.598)
Because it's interesting when I think about like my background like yours is that I never, I don't think I ever really had a job that was exactly on the org chart, you the way it was defined. Like I always made up something. Like I always created it from nothing and developed departments from nothing. I had Joy Spencer was on my podcast a couple of years ago and she talks about this whole idea of like, you know, reframe to create, like create your own opportunities within the organization. And when she talked about that, you know, I keep thinking like, well, at some point people are going to be
If they're that type of person, like this little playground within this one company is not big enough. Like now I needed, I gotta recreate this somewhere else. I gotta keep doing more things. And I think that it seems like it sounds like a natural kind of fit. But when we met, you signed up for the Impacted Income Accelerator in our initial conversations as you weren't 100 % sure you were all in. So what was going on at that moment? So the Impacted Income Accelerator, for those who are listening who don't know about it, is my...
It was my group coaching program slash mastermind where I took a group of people through my process of how to land clients. And a lot of it's driven from my passion around positioning yourself as a strategic partner to maximize your income through maximizing your impact. And that's why it's called Impact Income Accelerator. It makes sense. What was going on in your process of figuring this out that motivated you? And why did you need a low cost probe, if you will, before you went all in on?
your whole brand positioning and everything we did later.
Sara Guttman (14:40.152)
So I just needed some time to warm up to the idea, you know, to get there. Because again, I wasn't leaving an unpleasant situation in my case. And I wasn't desperate in the sense that I was currently employed. You know, I wasn't between jobs or hadn't been laid off. So I was fortunate to be able to have the flexibility to say, I want to...
do this, make this decision slowly and dip my toe in the water and not go, you know, just jumping off the high dive whole hog right away. So since I didn't have to do that, I didn't. So, and that is what the lower cost group program allowed a more gradual entry into this. You know, it's a huge change. It is now, I do have a new self definition that I am now also this thing.
that I am also an entrepreneur, solopreneur. So for me, I liked the gradual approach.
Betsy Jordyn (15:47.106)
So there's so many directions to go with that. You said a lot in that conversation, just that comment. But I think that there's a couple things as it relates to your process that I think for those who are listening or are in a similar boat where it's like, it's not horrible. And there's something called the doom loop, where it's like, you know, there's stages of your career where you start off in a career and it's like, I like it, but I'm not good at it. Then I move into like, I'm good at it and I like it. And then there's another phase where...
I'm still good at it, but I'm starting to not like it. And then the doom loop is, I don't like it I'm not good at it anymore. So like career development theory would say is like make a move when you still like it you're still good at it. Because at some point it's going to kind of go in that way. And it feels like intuitively you knew, like this is a good thing, I'm enjoying it, but being smart about making the move before you start going into the doom loop. So that seems like a really positive thing that you did and a transferable principle that others should do is,
If you've been thinking about doing your own thing, don't wait until it's awful.
Sara Guttman (16:46.574)
Avoid the doom loop, think that's solid advice.
Betsy Jordyn (16:49.452)
Yeah, like, like the just it because if you're starting to not like it or you're starting to get a niche, you're going to go in that direction. And I
Sara Guttman (16:57.07)
Right, you don't want to burn bridges, you don't want to not feel good about the work you're doing, if possible. Circumstances sometimes, of course, factor in. But yeah, I do think that's good advice.
Betsy Jordyn (17:11.81)
And then I really like your whole idea of like letting the idea sort of settle. You know, like not having that rush to, I've got to do this, but it's like, I want to be intentional. I'm going to let the, you know, kind of like, opened up the bottle of wine and I'm going to let it sit, you know, for a little bit rather than like pop open the thing and it's like, drink it. And then you don't even experience the positive thing. You know, what do you... Yes, that's what I meant to say. Breathe. I need to let the wine breathe. So what was the value for you?
Sara Guttman (17:32.654)
I like you breathe.
Betsy Jordyn (17:41.006)
in the accelerator, which is, think it's kind of interesting because I thought the accelerator was going to be geared towards people who've been at it for a while and they just wanted to level up their impact and income and, you know, land more, land clients. So I was, I was curious when I saw people who were signing up, who were kind of like at that newer process, like what, what made you decide to sign up for the group that was on something that it's not like it was a group on branding or how to start a business. was specifically on.
the strategic partner, why was that important to you?
Sara Guttman (18:12.11)
Well, that was one of my first questions to you. And I should say, I listened to your podcast for months before reaching out. So the decision, and I think you knew that, but that's, it was even more gradual. It was very gradual. I mean, we're talking at least a year. I was mulling things over in my head. So there's also that.
risk mitigation piece of this, to be honest too, that it's, you know, there are no guarantees. And so I just had to be, I think I also was deciding, is this something I want or not? And is this something that I am comfortable taking on this amount of risk? And so I had to get to a yes with both, and both with both of those questions. And that took time for me. So now I've forgotten your question from a moment ago, cause I went back.
Betsy Jordyn (19:01.306)
There was something that you had said about the strategic partner lingo. Like there was something about, want to be a strategic partner from the beginning. There was something about that content that resonated with you and like what was it about that that resonated?
Sara Guttman (19:14.122)
So you were saying you were surprised that someone at my, you didn't think when you initially designed the impact and income accelerator that it would be a fit for someone at my stage in their career, where I'm a mid-career professional but a little baby when it comes to consulting, that I, which I'm okay with saying and owning because I'm confident in my content expertise and the whole point of reaching out to you was that.
And I was kind of proud of myself for recognizing this, that I have a beginner's mindset when it comes to starting a business, which is a a different ball of wax. You know, that is different. That is not something other than the radically successful key chain business in elementary school, that there was, you know, that was new to me, even though I, in my work, know how to market venues, sell venues, execute on
you know, successful events and have lots of skills that it's different. just, it felt, my gut told me, it's different. Don't assume you know everything. Because there's a certain amount of confidence that is required to start your own business and be a consultant or a coach. You have to be confident that you have something to offer. And then in my case, I was able to compartmentalize and put that confidence in a box over here and say, I need help.
in this other category, which is the starting a consulting business, which I could Google, but I have a feeling there's a better way to do it.
Betsy Jordyn (20:47.368)
Yeah. And I think this is good mirroring for me is that it's not even like about like beginner's mind or where the confidence is. It was like in my mind, I kind of have like my roadmap, you like you start your first, you start your right business, you then build your brand messaging position in your website. Then you kind of figure out marketing and then you figure out how to land clients. And then you start like growing into thought leadership. Like I kind of have my roadmap and the impact and income accelerator was sort of like later, like landing clients. Like I wanted to fill that gap.
But it's interesting, it's like getting me out of my own box. It's like even the whole idea of like the monetization path, I think is what appealed to you is like, I want to be packaged up. You're struggling with offers, the offers language resonated, but there was something about the strategic partner language that resonated. And I think that I need to get out of my box because that's something that people from the get go would want to be.
Why was it important for you to be positioned as a strategic partner versus a service provider? Like, why did that content resonate with you?
Sara Guttman (21:47.948)
Right, well, and I could see how from where you sit, would mostly be thinking about and targeting people who already have the other experience and want to pivot to the new experience that you're offering to show them the way and help them get there. And so in my case, I was able to, it was almost like a thought experiment and just say, yes, even just hearing about that, I think I want to do the other, you know, the strategic partnership route versus
the more services for hire route. And because I mean, I was also thinking about efficiency and time and that it sounded not only the more impactful route, but the more efficient route. And both of those things appealed to me. I didn't feel I needed to try the other way first.
Betsy Jordyn (22:37.614)
I never really thought about the strategic partner path as more of the efficient path. I always look at it as more of the strategic path, but you're right, it is a more efficient path to greater income because you're making a bigger difference. So it is a more efficient, but I never thought about it that way.
Sara Guttman (22:54.434)
Well, efficient in a way. It is going slow to go fast or going slow to go slow but have impact. But I get that. mean, especially with the work I've done that it does take time to build a business. so I didn't... I mean, of course there are exceptions and overnight success. But most of the time it takes time in most cases.
And that's where I am right now in working with you and with some of the folks from the cohort that I am creating communication templates and thinking slowly about my value proposition versus kind of throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. also something that resonated a lot was our discussions around building a business you love. And that was...
pivot for me because when I first started thinking about starting my own consulting business, it was what can I get? What do I think people want and how can I give it to them? Which is also a good thing to you know, that's not a terrible way to approach You know starting a consulting business, but in chatting with you, I mean I started to think about What do I want the hours of my day to look like and what my actual work life
will look like in this new business and to make sure my services align with what I want to be doing versus what I think people will buy. I mean, I want to check both boxes. Obviously, people need to be interested in it and want to find it useful for their organization or their lives. But also meaning, do I want to mainly be doing solo work alone and typing on my laptop alone or do I want to have it?
meetings and webinars and collaborate on site visits. I have control over that. I can decide what I offer. And I'm more extroverted. And so I'm fine with some solo work, but I have created a business and designed a business that will allow for lots of interaction as well.
Betsy Jordyn (24:54.21)
Right.
Betsy Jordyn (25:07.534)
think what you say is like, okay, I have to decide what does the market want versus what do I want? And I think that that's a misnomer. I think it's a false dichotomy. I think that sometimes we push on what we think the market wants and because we don't do the market research, like a big part of my brand positioning process is to really dial into your ideal client and align yourself to them. But I think it's like a lot of times people think in the tactics, like, oh, okay, well, like, know, like imagining there's a lot of consultants who are thinking like, oh,
after 2020, should be able, I should focus my consulting business on how to develop a virtual workforce and how to do that. And then, you know, a couple of years later, everyone's like, oh, well, we don't want to go down that path anymore. We're going to go here. So now all of sudden your brand is like based on nothing, you know, like now you have to like start all over again, rather than, know, what was a bigger, more strategic problem, you know, that you're really trying to help people solve. And I think that that's where a lot of people think like, oh, this is what people want.
which is another version of your employee job where you just want to just deliver tactics rather than strategically. know, like where are they really going and how do I align myself to them? Like what's the problems? And I think that that is, I think it's a false dichotomy that people have. Cause I don't think you, I think what we identified is not like, I wonder if I went with the more logical or what I really loved. It was like, I found the more strategic positioning that makes sense for both of us.
You know, it makes sense for what you're trying to get help your clients do. It's not like it's, I'm pushing something that I love that my clients don't love.
Sara Guttman (26:35.734)
Right, no, I completely agree with you that it's not an either or, but there's a Venn diagram, all right? And so that's what I was trying to figure out is where's the overlap between what is needed and would be useful in the world and that I have to offer. Trying to figure that out.
Betsy Jordyn (26:52.084)
And I was just more reflecting on that, like, what you were, the business that you love language is, it's really exposing a lot of what people think, you know, that leads them into a path where, like, if you talk about the difference between the service provider and the strategic partner, they start off with, like, okay, I'm just gonna deliver tactics. I'm gonna go and just respond to whatever the market asks of me, whatever my referral want. I go in subcontract and I hit a wall.
because they were thinking about like, okay, this is what people want because it looks like my employee career rather than the other way around. And I appreciate you took the time to avoid all of that. And I don't know where you got the insight that I want to avoid all of that, but you avoided all of that or other people may go years in the desert, like the Israelites in the desert forever. Or like they spend the...
know, wandering around with subcontract and rely on referrals before it's like, hey, I should take control over this. Hey, how did you like, I brought up my Jewish background, you know.
Sara Guttman (27:55.861)
Yeah, I mean, I remember when I first reached out, I shared that I had a 16 or so page Google Doc of brain dump, know, just ideas of ways I could start a business. I could focus just on software. I could, just helping venues with software, you know, or there, and then there's pricing optimization. I mean, there's, you know, cost effective venue improvements. I mean, I could focus
solely on any of these things. And I just felt very overwhelmed in terms of which, what direction do I go? I need another set of eyes. I need another brain on this. Ideally one that has been there already and knows a thing or two. And that is you. Or it ended up being you because I enjoy, I just began to sort of trust your medicine, if you will, by listening to your podcast.
Betsy Jordyn (28:47.982)
Thank you. And I appreciate the trust. you know, ever since I had that skin cancer surgery and I got all super passionate about my new surgeon and their great branding, I'm glad that you mirrored back that I still trust in you because I do feel like that that's the heart of why we do all of this hard work is to make the person on the other end feel that they're in good hands. So thank you for mirroring that. So there was a point in the accelerator.
that you did decide. So you sort of went in, it's like, I'm not quite sure, I a million ideas. And there was a point that you said, I do want to go all in on this direction. And then you upgraded to do more of the one-on-one work with me. What was it that convinced you from, maybe I want to do a consulting business to, this is my direction. I definitely want to go down this path.
Sara Guttman (29:35.576)
combination of knowing the accountability would be helpful and that having skin in the game, I would not want to, to be frank, would not want to waste my hard earned money. That if I invested in my career and starting my business, I would see it through and not let self doubt or other distractions, anything keep me from seeing it through.
And then also wanting to, again, that word efficiency is coming up in terms of skipping some trial and error and being able to not have you do things for me. still create my own business, but to just have expert guidance and say, hey, I'm trying to decide between these two things. What are your thoughts? And the example that's coming to mind for me right now is, I use my name?
or do I create a business name? And you said, don't do, you and you probably had a whole podcast episode about this, right? So that, you know, to not use, your advice to me was to not put myself in a container and, you know, come up with a different, you know, do you wanna just share it? You'll summarize it better than me.
Betsy Jordyn (30:55.404)
No, like, thank you. No, you continue. This is like one of my hobby horses. So it's like, because it was so painful for me, you know, like having a fictitious business name was the, was a huge reason why it was really hard for me to pivot from my consulting business to what I do now. Because of all of the associations with my name, like my URL, changing all of these broken links, the branding side.
like reshaping everything. So it's like, if I started with, like this is just, you know, when I think I probably said whenever I got to that part is like, like I tell my kids, like you can make your own mistakes, just don't make mine. This is one of those things like, please, for the love of God, don't do this. It's going to be painful, you know, cause you never know where you're gonna go. You don't know. So you need a container. Cause I don't think, I think this is your business for now. I don't know. I think this is a great business. I think this is a highly,
successful one, but there's a thousand ways you can go with it. You know, that's going to be maybe at this thought leadership level around the community and creating community. could go into a different direction altogether. But if you say rentals are us or the rental maven, know, like they'll now your pigeon hold and there's nowhere to grow. And if you're an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial person.
Sara Guttman (32:14.606)
But it's been a leap of faith because in my experience as I have told friends, family, coworkers about, I'm pivoting, I'm launching out my own business. What's the name of it? And when I say just my name, everyone kind of goes, okay. Because they don't get it right now. It'll make sense later. And everything you're saying makes sense, but not everyone I talk to listens to your podcast, Betsy. So, but I think in two more sentences, I explain the decision and then they go, oh, okay, that makes sense.
Betsy Jordyn (32:37.912)
But you
Sara Guttman (32:44.962)
But the automatic question is they just want the cute, name, the cute logo, the sort of traditional business.
Betsy Jordyn (32:54.84)
But you could just say, decide, you know, like I'm moving from my career and now I'm becoming, I forgot what we use for your unique title, like rental event strategist or something. What was your, what's your time?
Sara Guttman (33:07.35)
operations consultant and which is which is still which took a while to get to and could change at some point but it needed to convey the operations piece.
Betsy Jordyn (33:09.442)
venue.
Betsy Jordyn (33:20.65)
So this is one we work on, or so what I do, is that your business name, like, so let's just say you called yourself Rental Mavens or us. You know, they're not gonna know what, they're still gonna have, what is that? They're still gonna have the same question. So this is you the opportunity.
Sara Guttman (33:36.184)
then you can and that wasn't enough.
Betsy Jordyn (33:39.618)
But no matter what the, no matter what the, so my fictitious business name was Accelera Consulting Group. Does that convey anything? Did you know what I do? No, you don't. But if I said, you know, I, so I've decided to pivot my business from consulting and now I am a business mentor and a brand messaging strategist for purpose-driven consultants and coaches. And what I do is I help them repackage their vast strengths and experience into a thriving business that they love. That's, that's where it's like, you just enhance your messaging. So that's part of the journey is just to get
the messaging. So if you said, you know, I decided to leave the JCC to take the experiences I had around turning that rental department into a revenue generator that provided reliable revenue to fund the mission that allows the JCC to grow their impact without having to get more donors. Now that's like more clear. Now people are like, well, that's interesting.
Sara Guttman (34:32.782)
Right, right, well and through this process when I was dipping my toe in the water and said, venue consultant, which is the shorthand, that is what I'm doing. But for people who were not in the hospitality industry, the assumption was, so you help like a location scout. So you help people find venues. I'm like, oh, that's not it. So I was like, that's not the right title.
because then anyone who's in the hospitality industry, if I said venue consultant, they knew what I meant exactly. Consulting venues, helping them run, be rocking venues and run more smoothly. But I needed something that worked for both types of people, in the industry and outside of the industry. So yeah, it was helpful to go back to your original question, to have guidance, to just have these conversations with someone with experience around what...
It's not simple. It's not lawyer, doctor, firefighter. I have to figure out how do I describe what I do.
Betsy Jordyn (35:38.958)
Even with that though, think that using my skin cancer thing as an example, I could have gone to a plastic surgeon. I could have gone to a dermatologist, but I found somebody who called themselves experts in skin cancer cure and recovery. that seems like they could technically be a dermatologist. can technically be.
a plastic surgeon, like they could technically be both, but the label creates a whole different thing. And I think that that's a big part of what we worked on is it's not about, and this label can change because that's part of the process is you put something out there, see how the market responds and it's like, I'm not gonna be that person. Like, for me, it's like brand messaging and positioning lands more than if I just said branding. I build branding.
versus brand positioning and messaging. It lands differently, so you just keep playing around with it. But what was it, so talk to me a little bit though. I wanna go back to the question I asked is, I definitely appreciate that you felt like you got accountability. You had expert outside perspective to help you commit to this direction. Was there anything else that gave you an inner clarity that this direction outside of like, have more trust in the process, like I created a container of
of growth container for myself. Is there anything else that happened to you while you were going through the accelerator that made you go from like, I kind of think this is the direction to me to I'm ready to give, I have a plan, I have an exit date, I'm doing it, this is my plan. Like, is there something that happened to convince you just the rightness of the direction?
Sara Guttman (37:30.734)
I wish I had a diary. I'm trying to think if there was. And maybe I shared something with you that you're remembering that I'm not, you know, a moment. I am not remembering a day, although maybe there was.
where it wasn't a flipping of a switch. It was more gradual, more like the visual via a scale and the tipping of the scale and just adding little grams to it. And then every time the impact and income accelerator would meet, it would add a little weight to that side of the scale and just slowly it tipped.
Betsy Jordyn (37:53.838)
Yeah.
Sara Guttman (38:18.12)
Are you remembering something that I shared previously that I'm forgetting?
Betsy Jordyn (38:21.792)
No, I think that I was curious about that one because I think for a lot of people it's like you're on the fence, you know, and there's this like and like I was meeting with a potential client yesterday and and he's like I love your program but it's like I'm just questioning myself like can I can I really step in can I do this and I was wondering if there was like an insight for that person but I think what you're saying is that it does make sense it's like I just take
several actions in this direction. Maybe it's not like I do a whole thing, but I do like baby steps and I put like a container in front of me and then at some point the thing tips. But I do wonder, because you mentioned like every time we got on the accelerator is if being around a group of people who are in the same journey at the same time, like on a subconscious level, like versus if you just jumped right into the one-on-one work with me.
would it have done the same type of confidence building versus like I'm surrounded by eight other people who are literally in the same boat and on the journey in the same way. And I could see some of them above me, some of them are at the same place. Did that help at all?
Sara Guttman (39:27.512)
Certainly, certainly. All of that is true. And I also think being in the headspace, just spending time in that world with other people who are already doing this type of work, or doing work in this way, I should say. No, that's one of the fascinating things to me about the Impacted Income Accelerator is none of us do the same thing, but these universal principles apply.
the, being in that head space, I built confidence for me, over time. And I think at some point I'm remembering now that I did have this thought that helped me take the leap, if you will, that think of it as an experiment, Sarah. Okay. You know, that's what I would tell myself versus you are now making a change that is a life sentence and you have to do this for the rest of your
career in this way. And because that is, I think I had some of that more black and white thinking at the beginning of my considering making this change. And when I realized you can do this for a few years. I started to think of it as a win-win. That either I do this and it's successful. Win. Or I do this and it's not and I go get a job somewhere else again, which I already know about myself. I don't mind.
You know? So once I realized it was a win-win, I was like, well, go for it. Then you will just know. And for me to start this business and try it, I will never have to wonder what would that have been like, because I'm finding out. And so that is a win. So for me, that was helpful as far as calming nerves or, you know, or.
building confidence to just chill out a little bit, think of it as an experiment, and try it.
Betsy Jordyn (41:30.572)
Yeah, so it's like having a vision for starting the business right. And some of it is, is I have a beginner's mind. I'm willing to learn and surround myself with experts. putting some accountability and structures in place, but ultimately I'm going to trust myself regardless of what happens here. I can succeed on the other end. My life experience has taught me that
that I can, I'm resilient, I can overcome. If this iteration doesn't work, I could pivot. I decide I don't wanna do this and I go in a different direction, I could do this because I have a track record of resilience, maybe not a track record in business ownership, but I have a track record in resilience that I can rely on.
Sara Guttman (42:11.51)
Right, that I am not worried about my ability, not my ability to survive, that's not what I'm trying to say. It's more my, don't pretend to know the future, I guess, and that maybe whatever this is, is part of my journey. And so whether it works out or doesn't work out, what does work out mean even? know, if it leads to something,
the next thing after it that I wouldn't have ever tried or been able to do if I hadn't done this thing first, it totally worked out. But life has lived forward. And so that's where that just had to get my comfort levels with risk up to where they needed to be to take the leap. And now it's great. I'm accepting of there's discomfort when you're doing something new. And then that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing. It's just that's part of it.
that there's gonna be moments that aren't familiar and that's okay. And that's, again, that doesn't mean it was the wrong choice.
Betsy Jordyn (43:19.042)
Like even when we were talking about the business name, you know, like we could talk about all the money and effort and all of the failures that went into me pivoting my business. But the reality is, is this is why I'm so passionate about what I do is like starting the right business right the first time is because I didn't start the right business right the first time I went through all of those freelance years of like just relying on referrals and you know, and then I went all in, but I went for the safe business, not the business that I wanted. So then I had to go and pivot it.
And even then it's like, well, what's safe? And that took me a lot more money and time. But what if I didn't have, if I didn't spend all that money and time, I wouldn't have these best practices that you were so glad to receive or worst practice that is actually you like, so it all pays forward. And it's interesting, even as I'm writing this, this workbook on this book on my brand positioning process, like all of these.
different iterations of things that I've been creating that is like, I didn't do it. like, I'm kind of pulling all these threads. Like everything counts. It's just that it may not count in the exact container that it was before, but we always get to pick a different container. Speaking of the container, I would love to talk to you a little bit more about your process of, so somewhere in October, we got into your individual brand positioning strategy and your branding and.
We even had a fun time in Denver where we got to do your photo shoot live with the amazing Danielle. So talk to me about your experience of clarifying your own personal brand. Like what was the part of it that was really easy and super fun? What was the parts that was challenging that you didn't like that, you know, was there moments that you were like, Betsy, you're driving me absolutely nutty. Talk to me about your process, positives and negatives, or maybe, or.
constructive.
Sara Guttman (45:13.678)
So the photo shoot, it was very helpful for you to be there to help with the, even the shot list. I didn't have a shot list in mind and I didn't know what I needed. And also you had a recommendation of specifically a branding photographer, which is a different type of photography from portraiture and event photography.
I feel confident I could have found a good branding photographer because of the work I do now. I know a lot of event photographers. But again, efficiency. You knew one already. So thank you. And your recommendation was great. I enjoyed working with her. And the pictures, we captured everything we needed. And so that was a positive experience. And one of the challenges for me was the clothing.
to be honest that I'm not a fashionista and I enjoy a good pair of leggings and have a bit of a uniform and wear a lot of the same clothes day in and day out. But this needed to be elevated, right? And so having over Zoom holding up some, what about this? What about this? And going to Pinterest and looking for ideas and using.
you know, some friends and family who are more fashion inclined to all help me bring it all together and pick out the clothing that conveyed the professionalism that I wanted conveyed in the photos. And so that was my big, big challenge. And I spent a lot of time just trying to figure out, you know, the clothing piece, because for me, that was out of my comfort zone.
Betsy Jordyn (47:02.686)
That's interesting because everybody has like a certain point of the process that's uniquely challenging and that for sure was your unique challenge. And usually for me it's like okay I kind of can get a vision but it's like I don't know which way we're going because like your your color palette like when I look at the orange and the the the color of the picture behind you we did definitely use in your color palette but the orange
threw me off, because I always see you in the orange. And so I was thinking like, maybe bohemian. So by the way, Pinterest thinks I love bohemian chic clothes.
Sara Guttman (47:36.366)
Thank you
Betsy Jordyn (47:40.302)
But I think it's interesting because once we got the photos, it was like, well, this is great. Like, this is totally you. You were totally comfortable. But it did take a little bit. And I think that that's where just the expecting of the process is. Who knows what's going to be like your own personal point? Because it was easy to identify your ideal client. That was the easy peasy. You know, it was easy to identify the problem that you were solving, clarifying what you did, like easy, easy, easy. So it's like, OK, bam, bam, bam. This is going to go well. And then it's like, OK.
you know, here's this one part of the.
Sara Guttman (48:11.415)
I had to throw you a curveball, Betsy. It couldn't be too easy.
Betsy Jordyn (48:15.198)
I know. But it was so much fun. Like, it was so fun seeing you at your photo shoot, like, just like seeing your warm smile and, you know, and seeing all the energy. Like, and we spent a lot of time there. Like, it was a long day. But, you know, just keeping your energy up, like, I was really impressed with you just, you know, sticking with it and pushing through and being the model that you became on the other end. That was really fun.
Sara Guttman (48:40.152)
Thank you. Yeah, well, and it helped your energy and Danielle's energy, because as you know, I'd gotten back from out of town late the night before. And so it was quite the thing to, I even had to have a friend pick up one of the tops that I'd had pressed, know, professionally pressed for the photo shoot. But it was a holiday. It was right after Thanksgiving, and they were closed. So anyway, I had to have it, I realized timing. I asked a friend, can you pick this up for me and leave it?
at my house so I can first thing the morning I get back when they're not open and my top will be held hostage, you know, so I can take it to this photo shoot I'm doing in Denver and all the pieces, it all came together.
Betsy Jordyn (49:25.41)
Like now I'm visualizing the broom again, like pulling out all of the outfits and like laying them out and then like I'm hot, I'm steaming them while you're getting your makeup on and then Danielle's like organizing like which outfits go together. This is why you can't do it alone. Like if you were going to a photo shoot by yourself but not having some of that type of support around you and knowing that like I think that that.
I think you did do the right thing. think the reason why you started your business right the first time is you created a container of support around you as you were walking into this new territory.
Sara Guttman (50:01.176)
I I was going to elaborate, but the short of it is I agree. And I was just thinking more just to paint a picture for anyone who's never done a professional photo shoot for a branding photo shoot that I did. I think I created, I made it harder in a way than it needed to be by not making enough decisions ahead of time on wardrobe. And I was thought, well, I don't want to not have everything I need. So I almost filled my entire car.
with clothes, even though it was a three outfit situation. And, but I just, hadn't made final decisions. And so I wanted to be over-prepared, which is not a bad thing. And then it was with your help and Danielle's help that you were able to give that outside perspective and say, yeah, this one looks better than that one. Go with that. And I did great. Thank you. Let's do it.
Betsy Jordyn (50:55.852)
And I think that if you didn't do that, like I keep looking at your picture behind you, like that bluish color is an anchor color for your color palette. know, like it's on your hero section, like love that color. And I think without you bringing all of those pieces together, we might've gone in a totally different direction. And I think sometimes like when you're pulling the pieces, like you just have to have this intuition of like, this is gonna all make sense. So I'm glad you did it that way. I wouldn't change a thing. And I'm glad you wrestled with it.
you know, because I don't think we would have gotten to the website that we did if you didn't wrestle with it. We might've just had a plain white background with just a few colors and it wouldn't have had your personality and all of that. As we're kind of like moving towards the end, I just wanna just have a couple wrap up around like your business and just as a wrap up of the value of this whole thing. So, you know, you could have gone the DIY path and went on this.
And, but instead you chose to invest in your business development at this particular point in time. What would you say is this trajectory you would have gotten and where do you feel like your trajectory is now? Because you invested in your.
Sara Guttman (52:05.006)
My guess is if I hadn't gone the Betsy route, I would be...
having some success, but it would be a little more whack-a-mole, right? Maybe a little more hit and miss, and a little more aimless, and...
Sara Guttman (52:29.336)
there definitely would not be as much clarity as there is now in terms of the path that I'm creating to take. So I was just thinking simultaneously about that quote, if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there, every road will get you there, which is a terrific quote. And so to take the time to think about
I mean, and this is also one of the seven habits of highly effective people, right? Start with the end in mind. And so...
Sara Guttman (53:07.086)
I'm doing that with you, but also you've been so great about communicating to stay flexible at the same time and that don't get your heart set on, you're not trying to convince me that I'm building the one and only final perfect quote unquote right business, even though we do use the word right, you know, the right business, that you're saying, you've always been clear with me that you could help me build a
successful business and that I like and that I'm confident in the work I do and how I do it, but also it might evolve and be okay with that. And I've always appreciated that about you and your approach, that it's not black and white.
Betsy Jordyn (53:58.798)
Thank you. And what I observed in you is going back to the strategic partnership positioning is like that I've seen grow in you. Like at the beginning, you were like, well, maybe I can go into a couple other organizations and like do everything and build everything. And the way that you're thinking about yourself and seeing the value of what you're bringing, it's like, I want my business to be a promotion. I've already built it. Now it's time for me to elevate and develop the next group of people underneath me who can do those skills. Like it's time to transfer those skills.
And I see your thinking move into that more strategic positioning bigger than I'm just going to go in and be the service provider, even though it's a temptation. I've seen that.
Sara Guttman (54:39.822)
initial idea was to absolutely to do what I already did just for other people, you know, in other organizations. And because that's very, that's comfortable for me, I know how to do it and that I knew it would be helpful. So that would feel good to me if I was being helpful. And then, you know, be like, here you go. Great. Here are some new beautiful, excellent floor plans. You're welcome. You know? And then...
And in listening to your podcast and having conversations with you and working with the group, that yes, I am seeing and desire that greater impact of more of a transfer of knowledge and creating more institutional knowledge for the organizations I work with and the people I work with and thinking about how the training and having that partnership mindset.
is so valuable in terms of having a greater impact.
Betsy Jordyn (55:45.42)
So with that in mind, let's talk to your future clients, your nonprofit executives, event and rental directors who are on this journey wanting to turn their event spaces into reliable revenue. on what you know now about yourself, what kind of partner are you and why are you the best person to help them?
Sara Guttman (56:09.998)
So I'm having thoughts around how I just, feel very intimate isn't the right word, but I just, care a lot. And so when I take on a project or a client or an organization, there's no, I don't, I can't not care. That's just not an option. And so I'm invested and that,
I think that's the kind of person, I guess it's very basic, kind of golden rule. Be the person you would want to work with. And so I try to do that. I think about how I wouldn't want cookie cutter solutions. I would want to feel seen and understood. I mean, unless I'm fine with it, this solution worked for other people and it's proven to work, okay, that's great. But there's still something custom about all of these organizations that I've had conversations with.
and worked with and given advice to over the years that it takes time and real conversations because I can't just say, do this, do this, do this, without knowing more about the context and what's going to actually work for them. so luckily I have, I'm a bit of a puzzler. So it tickles my brain to solve puzzles and I approach all of these venues that I've spoken with as puzzles that need solving.
I think it's fun. I'm also pretty fun. But I just like to have fun at work and during the day. And even if it's something dry, like talking about parking, which I have lots and lots of thoughts about parking solutions, that I try to just make it fun as well. And I really do think nonprofits, mean, what nonprofit has all the money they need? None of them, right? And so they all, if you're a nonprofit,
that owns your own building, why not have that building be an asset and not a drain? However, you have to do it strategically, or it will become a pain point, or a larger pain point if it already is a pain point.
Betsy Jordyn (58:23.635)
So I hear a lot of great things about why you're the perfect person. know, one, you have a vision for what you see as possible for them that they don't, which is making the asset something that's something like their physical facilities as an asset, not a drain and do it to go any of the expertise to help them do it in a strategic sort of way. Like there's that part. You said that you're very passionate about what they're trying to do and that you don't have cookie cutter solutions. It's customized to them.
And then also you take topics that kind of seem like they might be dry and you make it fun and engaging. So it sounds like your brand promise is a lot more of like, I will help you to transform your facilities into a revenue generator, probably faster, more strategic in a sustainable way. But the process itself that may seem like it's dry is a lot more fun and engaging. Like you'll actually, you'll love the destination, but you'll also enjoy the process along the
Sara Guttman (59:20.91)
Absolutely. the whole point of all of this is in the end, yes, the whole point is additional strategic revenue and how valuable that is and helpful for a nonprofit organization. But behind that revenue represents people and events and connection. that all, it's not all fun. Some of it is memorial services, But a lot of it is fun.
and all of it is meaningful and impactful. And so that motivates me and I think there are nonprofits that don't look at it that way and organizations that don't look at it that way and I hope through conversations they can start to see it that way and get as excited about it as I do.
Betsy Jordyn (01:00:13.72)
That's awesome. With that in mind, what is your new website that everybody could check out? What's your address and how could people get a hold of you?
Sara Guttman (01:00:21.59)
Absolutely, sarahGuttman.com, no H on Sarah, two T's, and I'm on LinkedIn as well. And I just, you know, since we're doing this, Betsy, we're under the hood. I already have the alias, Sarah with an H, for email, and it occurred to me earlier today I need to go ahead and buy the URL, Sarah with an H, because this is Sarah's out there. You know what I'm feeling and what we're talking about here. And I know you're Betsy Jordyn with a Y, so you know spelling.
Betsy Jordyn (01:00:48.718)
I know, that's a Jordyn with an A gets all my emails. So yes, you're right. I should have died years ago.
Sara Guttman (01:00:56.236)
I know, so I already, I thought about it, you know, two months ago with email to make sure I always, had Sarah with an H and without an H. But now I'm realizing I'm gonna go ahead and secure that URL so it automatically forwards to Sarah without an H, sarahGuttman.com, G-U-T-T-M-A-N.
Betsy Jordyn (01:01:13.922)
And thank you, you just gave me new best practice that I should share with all of my clients on people who have names like that. So thank you. Is there any
Sara Guttman (01:01:21.711)
Help the Bryans and the Bryans of the world. Help us all.
Betsy Jordyn (01:01:24.41)
Right. Yep. So is there anything else you want to share about your experience of converting your career into a will-be-thriving, I'm going to say it, will-be-thriving consulting business that you love and your clients love as well? And I'm just not asking you the right question.
Sara Guttman (01:01:43.928)
Is there anything else I would like to share? I would say for me, it's been be authentic, being authentic to my timeline. And what's been so important is the beginner mindset with that duality of having the confidence to start your own business, which requires that confidence, but then to simultaneously have an awareness of knowing what you don't know.
and even assuming there's a lot you don't even know to ask about and to not be afraid to ask for help. And that doesn't mean you're not gonna be very successful in your business. You don't have to know everything.
Betsy Jordyn (01:02:30.486)
and you're not going to know everything. I mean, it's just not, it's not logistically possible if you've never done it before. I want to reframe one thing you said though, is you said that it's like, you need to be confident. I don't know if you need to be confident. I think you need to be courageous and confidence will come later. You know, like you were courageous, but we dealt with some of the confidence issues, you know, and then you came out on the other side, but you had the courage to get into it.
And I think it's like, if I were gonna wrap up this episode, well, I am, if I were, I am wrapping up this episode. My show, I know how to wrap up. My take on this is though, that is starting the business right the first time or starting the right business at any point in time isn't the matter of luck or even talent, it's the consequence of strategy. It's like really putting the strategy and putting the right support around you.
Sara Guttman (01:03:01.304)
This is my... nothing.
Betsy Jordyn (01:03:19.51)
and that you don't have to know everything. You shouldn't already know it. That's a myth. Like, I should already know this when you're starting off something new is a total myth that keeps you small. That's a lie that I think part of your brain is telling you is like, I should already know this, but it's like, but I'm stepping into the unknown. In what universe should I know how to do this? Like it doesn't, it's not logical that you would even know it, but we all believe that myth. So I think that, I think you did a really great job, like busting that myth from the get go that you didn't waste time squabbling around and swimming in those waters.
and you got the right support. And I think that it is great results. Like if you think about from the minute we started, it was in September, October, November, December, January, February, we're five months in and that includes, and now you've walked away. You have your brand positioning, your messaging, you have your website, you have your photos, and you have all the skills you need to land strategic high paying clients that you wouldn't have had before with this ROI mindset. It's...
Like that's not, in the grand scheme of things, that's not a lot of time. You know, when you think you could have been going years and years trying to figure this out. that's my take on it.
Sara Guttman (01:04:24.59)
You know how much I was ruminating in my brain. Thankfully, you don't live in my brain. She'd be like, come on, enough with the analysis paralysis, Sarah, move on.
Betsy Jordyn (01:04:33.6)
And I'm sure none of my listeners could have any understanding of analysis paralysis. Wow, that's just a you problem. I feel bad for you. Like, I'll just feel bad for you from a S.R. because we all don't feel that way. Well, we all do.
Sara Guttman (01:04:45.56)
I really don't believe in except me.
Betsy Jordyn (01:04:48.83)
and I can go on and on and on, but I do have to wrap it up. So thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for sharing your experience. Thank you all so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to rate and review it. Pass it on to your other consulting or coaching friends or the people who are thinking seriously about becoming consultants and coaches so that they can be inspired by Sarah's journey. And if you are in this place where you wanna start your business right, or you wanna flip your business and start the right business and you wanna do it right, please.
Definitely reach out to me. You can head on over to my website at betsyJordyn.com. again, Jordyn is with AY. Book a call with me or learn more about my services or listen to more of the stories I have with people like Sarah. I'm very passionate about empowering the success of purpose-driven consultants and coaches. And until next time, thank you all so much for listening.
