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How Good Companies Become Market Leaders (Without an Infusion of Capital) with Charles Browne

organizational consulting Apr 24, 2020

Interview Transcript:

Betsy Jordyn: Hey, it’s Betsy Jordyn of the Consultant’s Institute, and I’m so excited to interview Charles Browne.  And our topic today is really focusing on those product companies.  You know what I’m talking about, the companies that have had a good run, because they had a great innovative idea.  And now, somehow things have fallen off the rails, and they want to establish a company.  And I’m bringing in the expert to tell us all about it. 

So, why don’t you introduce yourself, and share a little bit more about your business, and how you help your clients. 

Charles Browne: Sure, yeah, thank you, Betsy.  So, you know I started my career in the Navy.  I was part of their nuclear power program.  After eight years of service, I left and worked at a couple of commercial nuclear power plants and earned a project management certification and a Master Black Belt in Lean Sig Sigma process improvement, along with my engineering degree. 

But what I really enjoyed doing was – I’m really kind of that in-between guy.  So, I’m not a strict engineer.  I’m not a strict operator.  The majority of my successes in my career have been in getting those two groups to kind of talk together and to take the engineering vision, and kind of bound it with the operational limitation, and make sure everybody is on the same page. 

But then also, like you alluded to, once you have some success, and you have a little bit of momentum, and you have some great ideas, and you’re getting a good response, and you’ve got a firm customer base, but now you’re ready to step it up.  There’s a big difference between making 100 units a week and making 1,000 units a week.  I mean it’s not just a 10X process.   

If you’re trying to do that type of light manufacturing, and you’re trying to make some kind of a product, or deliver a service then in order to make that kind of growth, you really have to understand what’s contributing to your quality, what your customers are really looking for.  Why are they buying your product and not someone else’s?  What kind of messages and leadership style are in the organization that are contributing to that output every week? 

Because sometimes the ability to go from a 100 to 1,000 a week, or 1,000 to 10,000 a week it has nothing to do with the mechanical capability, right?  You can turn the machine up and make it run faster, but if your organizational structure isn’t right, if your management team and your leadership team isn’t sharing the right messages, if they’re not listening to feedback from the front line operators, your work flow is going to break down, and you’re going to get to that kind of critical point that maybe it’s better than usual, but it’s not quite where you want to be, and things are going to break down. 

One way or another, costs are going to escalate, quality is going to diminish, shipments are going to be late, schedules are going to be missed.  What I really, really, really like to do, what I really enjoy doing and I gain a great sense of satisfaction from is helping those businesses, who I love, who have some kind of a product that I’m really, really excited about make that transition.  From kind of a small – a small organization, they’re ready to scale up, I really like putting together systems and processes for them that make sense to them, that aren’t just out of a workbook somewhere, or out of an encyclopedia that tells them how to make more per week. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay, so let me unpack this, because there’s a lot here.  So, it sounds like first and foremost, you’re dealing with a manufacturing kind of client who has a really great product, and they’re ready to sell more, so it sounds like they’re all of a sudden getting some demand to sell more, but because of the way things are operating, it’s not like they can just make the machine go faster and do that, they need to re-create almost their leadership and operating platform to enable them to go to the next stage of growth.   

So, that sounds like a big – so, you’re not dealing with an evolutionary kind of change.  You’re talking about a transformational change, a step change from almost like one type of business to another, am I hearing that right? 

Charles Browne: Yeah, absolutely.  And you know sometimes most of these organizations are very frustrated, because they are incredibly bright people who got themselves to this point, why can’t I make it go?  Well, sometimes it isn’t just capacity.  Sometimes it’s not operational capacity.  Sometimes the marketing message has fallen off. 

Like we have these fans, you know – whatever, right?  We have this foundational population of just rabid fans who love our product.  Okay, if they love it, then there’s got to be more people.  Why isn’t it getting out?   

So, sometimes it’s a disconnect just on that marketing plan.  You have a small, local marketing plan that really resonates with a particular geographical community, or some other psychographic community.  And then all of a sudden, you try to take it national or international, and it falls apart, right, the wheels fall off.   

Well, sometimes it’s not always operational capacity; sometimes it’s even just in the messaging or you know the third leg on that stool is the leadership organization.  You know it’s a really easy habit to make to get your number one foreman...Okay, now we need a supervisor for the group.  You know what?  You’re my best technician, I’m going to put you in the supervisor role. 

Well, wait a minute, did you consider that there is a different skillset?  Are you setting that person up to succeed?  You know so there’s a lot of moving parts in a business, specifically in this area where I’m talking about, which is taking it from you know we’re getting the work done every week to you know next level, second shift, weekends, holiday rushes, that type of thing.  So, there’s a lot of tools and processes that need to be put in place.  

Betsy Jordyn: Well, it sounds like the first thing a company really needs to pay attention to is one, if I’m starting to have new challenges that I didn’t expect anymore, I really shouldn’t feel bad about them.  Like I know in my experience consulting, a lot of leaders actually feel bad.  Like they feel like oh my gosh, I did something wrong, because I got it to this point.  I don’t understand what’s going on, and it sounds like from your standpoint is it’s not only totally normal and to be expected; but is actually a sign that things are going well, because they’re getting raving fans.   

So, now it’s time to take the company to the next level, but if I’m hearing that right, I would make it the next step is it sounds like the first step this company really needs to go to is I need to embrace my challenges.  Because it’s a sign I should celebrate my challenges rather than feel bad about them.  Is that accurate?  

Charles Browne: Yes, absolutely.  That’s absolutely correct, so those growing pains are exactly that.  They’re growing pains.  The analogy that I usually use for clients is the transportation analogy, right?  So, we crawled for a while, and then we got to a point where we wanted to go faster, so we learned how to stand up and walk and it was really uncomfortable, and we fell.  But then we learned how to run, and then we learned how to ride a bike, and that wasn’t quite going fast enough.  So, then we learned how to drive a car, right.  Every one of those is literally a different operational vehicle that takes us faster, or further, or you know over a certain terrain. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay.  So, this is brilliant.  So, what I’m hearing you say then – this is a great analogy – is that you’re trying to tell your clients is it’s ready for you to go to the next level.  And if you want to go to the next level, you cannot be just riding a bike anymore, you need to build a car.  Because a car is going to take you farther than you ever thought you would go, and maybe at the next phase, they’re going to need to swap out the car, and turn it into an airplane.   

But so like at every phase they have to swap out the vehicle that they use to deliver results, and that’s why they shouldn’t feel bad, is when you were going from startup to this phase that you’re at now, you had to swap out walking for a bike.  But now you’ve got to swap out bikes for a car.  And it’s going to take some time to build a car, and build the right car, because it matters on where you’re going and how you want to get there. 

Charles Browne: And it’s the entire organization, right?  So, there’s a completely different skillset.  You might understand the rules of the road riding a bicycle, that doesn’t mean you’re ready to operate a motor vehicle.  Because some of the toughest conversations that I’ve had is someone has come to me and said, okay, we’re ready to move from running to a bicycle.  This is the kind of bike we need.  This is how fast we want to go.  But I look at their organization and they can’t go six or eight steps at a full run without falling over. 

Okay, you’re not quite ready for the bicycle yet.  You don’t really have running mastered yet.  Like let’s get that done, too.  So, I’ve had some of those tough conversations as well. 

Betsy Jordyn: So, this is what it sounds like where your consulting is separate and better in many, many ways than maybe even those big box – big named firms who have a lot of cookie cutter solutions, because they have to, I’m not trying to criticize those organizations, they have to, because they have lots and lots of companies that they’re working with, and they deal with a lot of junior consultants. 

But I think what you’re talking about is this is why a company really should hire somebody like you, who is more of a boutique firm, who can offer a solution, because it takes some precision to identify that, hey you’re running and you keep falling, you’re not quite ready; rather than I want to sell you.  Because a lot of consultants will want to sell an organization on a bigger solution than they’re ready for. 

Charles Browne: Oh yeah, absolutely.  I mean that’s what they’re – I mean that’s their business model, right? 

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah. 

Charles Browne: We [box firms] want to come in, we want to apply our technique, our strategy, trademark circle, right, that’s what we want to do.  And we want you to be a repeat client, so maybe we don’t fix it 100 percent. 

Betsy Jordyn: Oh yeah.  That’s true. 

Charles Browne: Maybe we don’t give you everything you need to know.    

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah. 

Charles Browne: Maybe we just leave a couple of dangling things out there.  So, yeah, so the advantage of someone like me who is actually going to be focused on you as a client, I mean that’s – it sounds again like it’s a little cliché, but you know, it’s really a customized, personal, one-on-one conversation between me and the leadership organization about what really the goals are.  Are they reasonable?  Are you ready for those, you know those tough conversations?   

And then what’s the congruent way, not what’s the popular way, but what’s the congruent way, what’s the best way to use the advantages and the leverages that you have in the marketplace, without losing your existing customer base, because all of a sudden you’re switching from boots to sneakers.  Well, wait a minute.  Hang on.  You know your people love your boots.  Why are you switching to sneakers?  Well, sneakers is a bigger market.  Eh, you know sometimes those conversations, the bigger firm, that kind of stuff just glosses right over, because it’s not in their workbook, it’s not one of the questions that have been scripted for those – and to have clients to ask.  

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah, it sounds like what you’re really bringing is a lot of – you have obviously, because of your background in operations and through all of your experiences, you with Six Sigma, you can go on and on and on with your professional background, the Navy, you know nuclear, we can go on and on.   

But it sounds like you use a lot of your intuition in the moment, your curiosity and drive to solve a problem when you’re in the moment, and you’re there to serve that client.  And you’re focused on what’s their problem, and solving it to the best of your ability, rather than I have a methodology and you have to like go be a cookie cutter into my methodology. 

Charles Browne: Yeah, absolutely.  The only thing I promise in an initial engagement is that we’re going to clearly define your problem statement.  And a lot of people think that they write down the problem statement, and the problem is ‘we need more sales’.  And that’s not a problem statement. 

So, the first thing I do is all around language.  And that’s my mom’s influence, right?  My mom was an English teacher, and my dad was an engineer.  So, this is my life, it’s been translating between these grooves.  So, the first and only engagement that I’ll ever commit to is let’s clearly define your problem statement in your words.  You tell me what’s really wrong.  And then from there, I’ll move forward in a direction.  We either need to get your process under control, or hey, it looks like you have some internal data that you weren’t aware of.  And then I go talk to the rest of the staff to mine the solutions from internal. 

Because every experience that I’ve had, the team knows.  The team knows what’s wrong.  The team knows, you know, what’s going to work, and what isn’t going to work.  So, giving them a voice to executive management is also a big part of what I do. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay.  So, we’ve got a lot.  So, I definitely want to follow that one, because I want to hear a little bit more about your differentiated approach, because it sounds like you do a lot of mining within the organization.  But I want to raise a question that somebody might be listening and saying hey, Charles, but I am struggling with sales.  Like I don’t understand, why is that not a problem?  Like that might be something that doesn’t make sense. 

So, how would you move somebody from saying, hey, my problem is sales to what you would say is a better-defined problem? 

Charles Browne: Well, a better-defined problem is: sales isn’t a single step node in your process, right?  So, if you’re a sophisticated enough organization, you should have a sales process, which means you’re advertising for leads, those leads are coming in and being exposed to your offer, whatever that is, product or service.  They’re evaluating that offer.  They’re looking at the options.  They’re doing a price compare, and then they are customers.  So, that’s not a one-step process. 

So, first and foremost, where is the breakdown?  Are you just not – are you just not getting enough leads, in order to put them through the process?  Or are you getting leads to a specific part in the process and then they’re dropping out and the sale is falling apart there?  Are you getting plenty of leads, but no follow through?   

You know it really depends on what the shape of the organization is, and do you make your money on a one-time sale transactional type process, which is perfectly acceptable.  Or do you really count on kind of recurring, monthly revenue from the same customer?  What’s the lifetime value with that customer? 

So, if you’re not quite sure exactly what that sales process looks like, it’s really hard to move forward and just say well, we want more sales.  Therefore, what most organizations do, we’ll spend more money on marketing.  Well, you’re spending more money on a process that’s still broken.  You know, so you’re going to get the same rate of return.  So, let’s first get it under control, look at where the breakdowns are, look at those specific steps within that process that we can improve, and then go from there and up, and up, and up. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay.  So, it sounds like from the big picture standpoint, so if you’re dealing with a company that has had a good run with a product, and really wants to take it to the next level and be creating – becoming more like a full-on company that has some stability and scale-ability, your first step that it sounds like you do is you make sure that the client understands like hey this is good, you know you’re moving to the next level.  You’re dealing with growing pains.   

It sounds like the second thing that you look at is like their readiness, you know like where their organizational readiness is.  And then the third is you help them be more precise around what their issues are, that you know those big words like sales, or even trust, communication, like whatever, those are too big of concepts, you break it down, and you help them get more precise around where the breakdowns are, really what they are looking for, and what’s relevant for their business model. 

And it sounds like when you get into the problem-solving mode, so finding the problem is the first half, but it seems like when you’re solving the problem, it sounds like you’re using an approach where it’s not like I’m just using best practices from a thousand other companies.  It sounds like you’re mining them from within the organization from all of the employees, and it sounds like from other people.   

Is that right, first off?  And second, who are you mining these solutions from?  Like who are you grabbing voices from and integrating them in the solution? 

Charles Browne: Yeah.  Oh my gosh, yes. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay, all right, cool.  I’m listening. 

Charles Browne: That’s absolutely how I have to do it.  Me, personally, the way I work, I have to really understand their problem, because the definition, it’s huge, and then the stability, the assessment of the organization.  How stable are things?  If I put in A, am I always going to get out B?  Or every once in a while, do I get a C or a D?  So, you know before you try and scale that type up, you have to have a lot of confidence in your people and in your process. 

And this isn’t just the mechanical manufacturing process, right.  These are other things, these are on-boarding, these are promotions, these are leadership development, all those types of things.  If I put in an A, do I get out a B, so I get an expected outcome, and then absolutely, then you’re ready to go.  

The growing pains that people feel is they’re putting in A, A, A, A, A, and they’re getting B, B, right?  That’s awesome, that’s the great problem to have.  And then where do I get those answers, so every organization – so this is one of the mortal sins in nuclear power operations is called an operator work-around.  So, they have very strict procedures, first you do one, then you do two, then you do three.  You don’t skip, you don’t go out of order.  You follow the process, because it’s very, very important that you need to do that. 

And every once in a while, somebody will write in a best practice, or write in some kind of, oh don’t forget to... – that’s an operator work-around.  That’s not proceduralized, that’s not captured, that’s in somebody’s head.   

Now, in a small organization, it’s okay to do that right, because Mary does that job all day, every day, it’s okay for Mary to know the best way to do that job.  But unfortunately, Marys get hit by buses, and when Mary gets hit by a bus, she took that knowledge with her, the organization can’t scale from there, right?  All right, so we’ll bring Mary back, Mary’s there, we put in a parallel line, because now we want two Marys.  We hire another Mary, and that Mary doesn’t know what the first Mary knows, right?  

Betsy Jordyn: Let’s just say Mary got the lottery and she quit. 

Charles Browne: There you go, there we go.  So, but the problem is, there is a lot of operator work-around, there is a lot of knowledge capture and transfer that doesn’t happen, especially in smaller organizations.  Things are going good; you’re celebrating, it’s great.  Hey, I think we have the revenue to go ahead and expand.  But sometimes, you don’t [have the knowledge].   

And a lot of times when the executive team makes the improvement decision in a vacuum by themselves in a board room, and just rolls them out, and they didn’t pulse Mary on what the best thing to do was, Mary has a lot of knowledge that would have helped them, that they would have made a better product.  But because they weren’t pulsed, because they’re not engaged in that process, you miss a lot of opportunity – a lot of opportunity and timing, Mary could have helped you out a long, long time ago.   

You don’t have to wait until it hits the bottom line, she knows right away, and a lot of executive decisions tend to be capital dense, you know they want to solve that problem with new machines, and new processes, and new procedures, and new people.  We’re going to add more people.  But sometimes it’s – more times than not, it’s not that.   

Sometimes it’s a simple procedural thing.  It’s a structural thing, you just kind of change a little bit of the flow a little bit, change the tempo of certain meetings, or certain feedback loops, and the team, even if you have a semi-skilled work force that isn’t really sophisticated in industrial engineering, or manufacturing technologies, they know their job.  They know their job very, very well.  They do it for you day-in and day-out.  They have a lot of knowledge.   

But they, themselves, don’t even realize that they have – well, this is just what you have to do, you have to hold this little piece up there, before you slide the new piece in.  I mean it’s just what you do.  Oh, well, if you’re not doing that job every day, you’re not going to know that and you’re going to miss an opportunity to make improvement. 

And when you empower that front line to know that hey, your step and your role is very, very important, and very critical to this organization, when you give those people a voice, I mean the growth is exponential. 

Betsy Jordyn: So, this is huge.  This is really huge.  So, I’m really walking away with so many different things from this interview, but the main thing is, is if a product centered company wants to turn into sort of like a customer-center enterprise, that the challenges that they’re having are actually those opportunities for growth and a way to expand their platform, so that they can incorporate all those little work-arounds into their actual process.    

And that by mining all of these solutions from within the organization, rather than some sort of cookie-cutter approach, that you might have gotten from other companies, or some other big box processes, and you get it from within, you could actually help them get to the results that they’re looking for without spending a huge amount of money, that it’s a lot of tweaks. 

And actually, from my experience, if you give Mary a voice, she’s going to be much more bought-in and you’re going to create a much happier work force.  But it sounds like right now, when you’re dealing with all the constraints in our marketplace and how hard it is to grow a business, that people are so worried about innovation because of the capital.  But it sounds like you can get your clients there to dramatic results without a lot of capital, is that – did I get that part? 

Charles Browne: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely.  I can count on one hand the number of times that the equipment was the bottleneck.  Most every other engagement, the process, the leadership, or the message were the bottleneck.  And it does not cost a lot of money to improve those things, and to fix those bottlenecks, absolutely. 

Betsy Jordyn: Wow.  So, even when you’re investing in the equipment under those types of things, you’re still knowing with more precision that if I have to do a capital investment, it’s going to get a return, because I’m sure that it’s the root cause, rather than another simple tweak. 

Charles Browne: Yeah, you’ve already proven that, when you put in A, you get out B.  So when you invest in that new capital expenditure, you’re going to put in two As and get out four Bs, absolutely, absolutely. 

Betsy Jordyn: So it sounds like instead of you making your clients go through some sort of process, you put in their processes, so that every time they do something, it’s repeatable, and then when things start falling down again, which they might – when they move to the step change, at least they have the foundational analytics to go from, to say all right here is what it’s supposed to be, now we know, and now we are more educated, or more confident to handle the situation in the future. 

Charles Browne: Yeah, absolutely.  It sounds like a bit of a marketing pitch.  But I really, really approach every engagement with the intent of putting myself out of business.  I transfer everything I know, every bit of my process to that executive team, so they can take away as much as they want.  Some organizations, they just want to focus on what they do.  They want me to come back on a recurring basis.  Any time they have a problem, they call, that’s fine.  Other organizations they feel like they really, really want the ownership, they want to do it themselves.  I share everything that I do.  I help them through that.  I get maybe a phone call every once in a while that says hey we’re trying to apply that technique that you used over here, and it’s not quite working right, so I’m absolutely – I educate everyone from that front line operator, all the way up through the executive team, if they’ll let me. 

Betsy Jordyn: So, in either case, either if they want to do it on their own, or they don’t want to do it on their own, you’re not going to be like one of those consultants who holds a little bit back in order to get the sale, you know to get future sales.  You’re going to give it all the first time around.  You’re going to make sure the problem is solved.  The client’s in a much better scenario, and if they don’t want to DIY it, you’re available.  And if they do want to DIY it, you’re still available, just in a different capacity.  But either way, you’re not holding anything back, so that they have to use you. 

Charles Browne: Right. 

Betsy Jordyn: It’s how they choose to use you. 

Charles Browne: Yes.  If I’m on site, it’s because I love them, or I love their product.  And so, I’m not going to hold anything back, it would just – it would kill me to. 

Betsy Jordyn: Yeah.  That’s awesome.  So, tell me how people can get a hold of you.  So, what’s the best way?  I know you have a website.  So, what’s the – how can they find you, and what can you offer as an initial – a couple initial first steps of how people can get in contact with you? 

Charles Browne: Yeah, absolutely.  I mean my website is Charlesbrowne.com, I’m sure it will be in the show notes, or somewhere here… 

Betsy Jordyn: But if somebody is just listening on a walk, and they get super curious. 

Charles Browne: Okay.  So, it’s going to be Charles Browne, and it’s Brown with an “e”, so b-r-o-w-n-e.com.  That is my consulting site.  That will take you there, you can fill out the form, or you can just email me at [email protected], super creative there.  I’m not a design firm. 

Or look for me on LinkedIn.  I mean that’s most of where I do my engagement.  I mean it’s the professional platform, that’s where I engage a lot of people, and answer a lot of questions right there on LinkedIn. 

Betsy Jordyn: But do you have like anything that somebody can get a taste of working with you? 

Charles Browne: Yeah. 

Betsy Jordyn: Like is it, they have to fill out a form, and now they’re signed up.  Or do you have something that you offer in the interim? 

Charles Browne: Yeah, on charlesbrowne.com, I do have an opt in, which is just simply a first name, and an email that’s it.  It’s not a heavy marketing stream.  The give-away there is I have the outline for my strategic approach.  So, there is an assessment tool in there, that people can download, and it will take you through each of those facets of the organization that we just talked about, and kind of give you an idea of the right questions to ask, and let you, yourself, and your internal team – so you could this by yourself as an individual, or you could take this to your next board meeting.   

And you, as an organization can go through the strategic assessment, and really grade yourself on how well you’re doing in all those individual areas.  You would probably be really, really successful on being able to identify your own bottleneck, just by using that one free tool. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay.  So, that sounds like a great solution for your DIY kind of clients, because it sounds like you have the DIYers who definitely would love the tool.  You know what about somebody who just wants a little bit more of a personal approach, can they jump on a call with you, and will you… 

Charles Browne: Yes, absolutely. 

Betsy Jordyn: Are you going to charge them, or would it be something that you offer complementary? 

Charles Browne: No, I definitely offer complementary calls.  Again, you know, it’s a two-way street.  I’m not right for every client.  Every client is not right for me.  So, I definitely encourage anyone who is thinking about reaching out to me, you can go to that website again, go straight to my calendar, there’s a form on there that will take you straight to my calendar to schedule a call, 30 or 60 minutes, somewhere in there, and let’s get on the call.   

Let’s talk about what your problem is, and I’ll help you really define what that problem statement is, and by the end of that call, you’ll have a clearer idea of what your ask is, and I’ll have a clearer idea of whether I’m the right person to help you. 

Betsy Jordyn: So, it sounds like you’re not really there to, you know, do a high-pressure sale.  It sounds like it’s a conversation and if I get on the call, if I’m in that same boat, can I expect that maybe you’ll help make sense of all of the confusion I might have, like will I be able to walk away with more clarity on – you know, really the difference what you said in the beginning is I think I have a sales problem, but are you going to help me kind of figure out like what is my real problem, so that I can at least get that, whether we decide to work together or not. 

Charles Browne: Yeah, absolutely.  And that’s not necessarily a secret, but how I do that is so personalized, and it’s so conversational, that that’s really only something that I can do when I’m talking to someone face-to-face, one-on-one, or you know through this medium, whatever it is.  It really is a conversation, because it is so important to put those solutions in context.  Who are you?  Who is your business?  You know, what’s your value statement?  What is your business’ mission, vision and values?  How does that play into what you’re trying to do with the business? 

All that stuff is so important to getting a good result, that having that conversation is absolutely the best place to be.  And yeah, at the end of those calls, usually yes, 30 to 60 minutes, there’s a lot of “ah-ha” moments in there.  And even if you have three or four different things that are bothering you, I’m really great at helping you understand what that top number one priority is, because maybe this one of the three initiatives really needs to be completed before you move onto the others, or one is more pressing than the other. 

So, again, those are the kind of things that I apply in my own personal experience and expertise to, and that’s what I love to do.  That’s why I’m doing this. 

Betsy Jordyn: So, bottom line, what it sounds like is, is that if you’re a company who has a really great product, and for some reason things have plateaued, and things seem to be challenging, Charles is your guy who is going to help you take those challenges and help your company actually become on that growth path, potentially on your way to becoming number one in your industry, or at least in your market, and your first stop is really just to get on your website, check it out, get your freebie, if you’re the DIY person who would like to just kind of use a tool, which is great. 

Or if you get the tool, or you don’t get the tool, you’ll still offer an opportunity for people to get on a call, and you’re going to help clarify.  So, you’re going to go into their heads, and sort and organize all those ideas, so that they are clearer than they ever were before.  Is that accurate? 

Charles Browne: Yeah, absolutely.  And actually you just kind of reminded me there have been a couple occasions where I’ve gotten on the phone with an organization, it was during whatever, their weekly or monthly call, I’ve gotten on a speaker phone with an entire board room of people, and given them enough help to be able to hang up the phone and work for another month or two on an internal problem, before they then reach back out to me for a larger engagement. 

So, yeah, you’ve said that I’m not high-pressure, I’m not that way anyway.  But even just helping you understand what you as an organization want to do next, helping you decide whether or not you’re even ready for external help yet or not, that’s also part of what I do too, so yeah. 

Betsy Jordyn: Okay.  So, that is a huge differentiator, so for anybody who is listening in, there is an opportunity for one-on-one, or there is an opportunity for you to talk one to many.  Because most consultants don’t necessarily jump on a call with a leadership team.  And I know my experience working with leadership teams, they’re trying to come together on this one.  So, to bring consensus to say, here is what the problem is that we want to solve is huge, and whether they jump on working with you at that point is not as relevant for you.  It’s all about problem-solving. 

Charles Browne: Yeah.  

Betsy Jordyn: Your passion is solving the problem, and you’ll do whatever it takes. 

Charles Browne: Absolutely.  And you know solving the problem from an organizational perspective, not just from HR’s perspective, or operation’s perspective, or you know it really is great to have everybody to talk to, because I’m going to talk to everybody anyway, so you may as well get them in the room. 

Betsy Jordyn: So, you not only solve the problem, but you get everybody on the same page working together to solve the same problem; that’s massive.  Thank you so much for your time.  This was so helpful.  And I know this was helpful for so many.  So, I am very grateful for you taking the time. 

Charles Browne: It was my pleasure, thanks Betsy. 

Betsy Jordyn: Thank you.  

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